I've been with my girlfriend for 2.5 years and have no doubt that I love her. I'm seriously considering proposing sometime next year (when she returns from overseas), but I've been perpetually iffy about ever getting married because I strongly fear the possibility of ever having to go through a divorce. That kind of heartbreak after declaring such a strong commitment would be the last thing I would ever want to experience - for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is that men are often badly burned by divorce settlements. I understand that under some circumstances it's in the best interest of both parties to separate, but couples rarely do so amicably, and a woman scorned isn't always concerned with being reasonable toward her soon-to-be ex-husband. The government usually sides with the wife during a divorce (especially if kids are involved) and often forces the guy to pony up exorbitant child support or alimony payments. So should prenups become more obligatory? And - since I know almost nothing about how prenups work - what sort of clauses would be important to include? What terms CAN men and women include to ensure an equitable settlement in the event of a divorce? And, to the ladies reading this thread, would you be insulted if your husband-to-be brought up wanting to protect himself and SOME of his assets with a prenup? Do you see any reason why they are necessary? I know this is a touchy subject because a man and woman entering into a marriage are just supposed to trust each other. But wouldn't it be better to work these matters out before getting married, when the love for the other person - and the desire for them to be happy in the long-term - is still there? It just seems to me that emotions are running too high and spiteful feelings are too likely to enter into the picture if everything is decided at the end of a marriage. Your thoughts?
Theres some great websites made by men who have been raped (not literally) by their ex wives in divorce court. If its obligatory then that means the guys will usually pay $0. The government and jurys do favor women in divorce court and thats why I don't really want to get married. What happens when your wife finds a guy she likes better and has an affair? You get ass raped in divorce court. Half your paycheck will go to her and her new boyfriend. I think we probably do need something set up so that in a divorce if they are going to force the man to pay its a reasonable amount (no idea how, but for marriages sake).
Marriage nowadays is more of a financial issue than a sexual one. With a divorce rate above 50% and rising, it's just not realistic to expect to be together your entire life. Basicaly, what you're really agreeing to is to be together for, well, a while, and to merge your finances. There are various tax breaks you get when you get married and all that, making it a good idea. If you are even considering the possibility of getting divorced, which is smart, because it's likely, than it's not what marriage used to be. And that's fine. Let it be what it is, and get a prenup.
Personally, I would be offended if my man came to me with a pre-nup. I don't want his money, his property or assets. If he is marrying me, I would hope that he knows that. I've never been comfortable with men spending money on me... gifts, dates, whatever. If I wanted something, I bought it myself. I expected that to be respected by anyone I dated. I married my husband because I love him. If the time comes when I no longer love him, I will leave with what is mine. I will take what I came with (books, cd's, clothes, etc.), split up what was "ours" fairly, and thats that. I don't want anything more than that. If kids are involved, then things get more complicated, but I still would ask for more than is fair for the kids sake (roughly half of the costs) Not all women are like this... I realize that. Some women are very money driven, as are some men. If you woman is money/belongings driven, then maybe you should get a prenup to protect yourself.
yeah, well, how many women have said that before getting married? then when they're furious at their man for whatever, decide to hit it to them the only way they think he'll feel it: financially. don't be offended, that's just childish. if you don't want his money or whatever, then sign the prenup. it protects you, too, should you be the one who makes it big.
RE: considering proposing sometime next yea Don't do it. RE: prenup Those are invalidated in court in many jurisdictions. England the worst offender. Don't do it. Seriously.
RE: Personally, I would be offended if my man came to me with a pre-nup. I don't want his money, his property or assets. If he is marrying me, I would hope that he knows that. All he's asking you to do is put that in writing, hun.
i've never seen a successful marriage yet. i hold out hope for my own, but one can't really blame me for being somewhat cynical about it.
Excellent point, kc. With more and more women attaining financial and career success, why haven't prenups become popular among women? Is it because women don't usually have to worry about getting the short end of the stick post-marriage (under the current legal system)? I haven't heard too many cases of guys scoring big on alimony (and I reckon they rarely would on child support), but it must happen. And that's why I kinda think both parties need to cover their asses with things like a prenup. Of course everyone has good intentions going into a marriage, but half of marriages end in divorce these days, and the legal system governing all this can be easily twisted to the will of greedy people. I believe both participants in a marriage have to talk and work these things out (money, kids, property, etc. - what if...?) BEFORE taking the plunge. But how do you bring that sort of stuff up to your partner ("we have to be prepared in case we fuck this up") without seriously offending them? And IronGoth, can you give me a source for that info about which jurisdictions invalidate prenuptial agreements?
Almost everyone in my family has been divorced at least once. So, yeah, I have every reason to be cynical. However, if my bf came to me, wanting me to sign a pre-nup, I wouldn't do it. I'd tell him he's obviously not ready to marry me, we'll just continue living together and keeping our finances separate indefinitely. If we're going into it expecting it to fail, and minimizing the cost of it failing (and I say that with the expectation that I will be the one making more money than him, so I would likely have more to protect), then it's like asking for it to fail.
How can you expect your husband to TRUST you for the rest of his or your life? I'm sure almost all guys going into marriage are sure about it and trust the girl, but after 20 years or so you can start to really not like your partner and not trust them. So don't be offended if they want a prenup, because they do trust you, they just don't trust you 20 years from now if for some reason you two start fighting (one of you could go insane or something in that time period).
Why would I MARRY someone who I couldn't expect to trust me and be trustworthy for the rest of our lives? Why on earth should he marry me if he couldn't expect the same from me (that I trust him and be trustworthy)? Like I said, if he wants a prenup, we just won't bother getting married. So we don't get the tax breaks and I keep my own name. Big friggin deal. If he wants to keep his options open, I'm not getting into the hassle and expense of marrying him. And, like I said, I'm coming to this from a position where I'm technically engaged (tho it will be a long engagement), neither of us are coming into it with any great assets and I expect to earn more than he will. I would have more to protect than he would. If he doesn't trust that I will put as much effort into working through our problems, seeing a cousellor if need be, as he will, then we shouldn't be getting married. Yeah, divorce rates are high. I blame a large part of that on people who go into it expecting "happily ever after" and running away instead of working thru it when the inevitable complications arise. If you go into it expecting to have to protect your assets, I assume you either will not be willing to put in any real effort if things stop being perfect or you don't trust your partner to be willing to make the effort. If you can't trust your partner to make that effort, why on earth would you marry him/her? No, nobody can predict the future, but this is why it's incredibly important to talk through these things many times before getting hitched. Frankly, I would never marry a man without living with him for at least a year -- that's when you really start to run into those issues where you need to work thru it, see if s/he really is worth marrying, whether you can trust him/her to put in the effort. When you're just dating, not cohabitating, it's too easy to sweep problems under the rug by going home to your own prospective houses until you've each cooled down.
people change. circumstances change. i lived with dave for a couple years before we married. we're the best of friends to this day, 7 years later. however, i'm afraid, because my first relationship lasted 8-1/2, then over the course of several months completely imploded. i never married him, thankfully. but things were blissful for a very long time, then we changed. and that was that. he's not evil, i'm not evil, but we're not right for each other. dave and i work very hard to be good to each other, but we're both children of broken homes, and he's on divorce under his belt (her infidelity, and they were only 20). i just don't think in this day and age, when so many people are coming out of completely devastated families and vicious divorces that any woman should be annoyed or insulted by a prenup. after all, these sorts of marriage agreements have been the norm from the get-go, really. and in the age of sentimental marriages and no pre-nups we've got a 50% divorce rate. i dunnno, i think something's off. of course, you could just avoid marriage completely. that would work to some degree, but beware of common law marriages and fraternity suits, as well as paternity suits.
I think common law marriages is complete bullshit. If you don't say your married and don't agree to it you aren't, and they can't fikniwe take your stuff and force you to pay the other person if you didn't agree to it, or they shouldn't be able to, but people are rew stupid. I suppose not helping when your the parent is a good reason to force them to pay up, but then agian your the idiot who got pregnant with them before you got married. < This is why children should come after marriage, (note I didn't say sex, I said children).
If you live in a community property state (like CA) then everything you or she gets during the marriage is community property, which cannot be covered by a prenup. Legaly, child support is a payment to the child not the wife. Prenups do not affect child support or custody issues. It says you are 25. Do you currently have enough assets that a pre-nup would do anything?
I gotta call you on this one. "your the idiot who got pregnant". Since "you" can be plural, I can't disagree with you. Everyone who helped with the conception should help with the raising. Child support (whether from a wedding/divorce, shack-up/break-up or one night stand) is for the child. Even if the mother is a lying, manipulating, cheating, emasclulating bitch who lied about being on the pill and poked holes in the condom. Regardless of what the mother did, the kid still needs to be raised. I repeat, everyone at the conception is responsible for the raising.
