Truth doesn't need to be defended...

only spoken.

Therefore any religion that needs to be defended couldn't possibly be the truth.

(My 2 cents)

 

It's like Nietzsche said, "there are no facts only interpretations".. that's why everyone is defending their own truth.
But I lnow what you mean.. you dont have to defend that the sky is blue, because it is.

 

well how do we KNOW the sky is blue, or can we ever KNOW it--do we just accept it as "blue" for our own simplicity

 

Good anology Autenique. But I don't know if everyone's defending their own truth. I think alot of people are defending their decision to stop seeking their own truth and just accepting someone else's version of "truth".

 

Still, if you're walking around on a cloudy day and someone says "the sky is blue" you don't have to defend the fact that's it's actually grey at the moment. All you have to do is point up.

If the other person won't look, it's not like the sky will suddenly turn blue.

The other person can call the sky whatever colour they want and it'll still be grey, and you don't really lose anything by letting them think so (hey, you tryed to make them look. It's not like what you see will cease to be true just because the other person won't look at it).

 

We accept it as blue because to whatever extent our senses allow us to percieve it, it looks blue.

It's "truth" in as far as we can percieve truth in this matter.

 

I like Descartes philosophy: I think therefore I am. Perceptions are not always constant. The only thing provable to be real is your own existance.

Whats really awesome is that if you doubt your own existance, just the manifestation of doubt requires thought which proves your existance.

 

I dont think there's one big truth.. if there is.. it would be that every moment has its own truth.. what i believe to be true yesterday, could be a lie today.

 

all environment is changing/changable, so truths and facts can change

 

but by definition a truth and a fact DONT change.

 

you need to remember that there is no absolute truth. Everything is relative.

 

I think he had it partially right. The part that thinks (and therefore is), is the ego-self. If you doubt the ego, the thought of that doubt is the ego doubting itself, which clearly proves it exists.

However, the ego is an illusion. Illusions exist, true, but they are not real.

truth and fact do change, because they are relative. Especially fact. It used to be a truth that the earth was the middle of the universe, and was backed up with facts like the sun going around it, and the planets. The facts changed when we discovered more things (telescopes, gravity, etc). Facts are not unchanging or set in stone. Truth is similar, it is sort of like the overall understanding, encapsulating all the facts we know into a coherent whole. But as the facts change, so too does the truth (since our truths are based on our preceptions and understanding...which change constantly). What is truth to me may not be truth to another, because he has a wider understanding.

Consider this example. We've agreed that the sky is blue, that this is the truth of the matter. However, to a honey bee, it would look much different because they see a different color range than we do (shifted into UV, I think, so they instead of red, they see yellow...i think). Does that mean that to say the sky is blue is untruthful?

 

i know im getting out of subject but i have to say it

we are only free when we let our ego go.

 

judgemental 2 cents note, could be so close to it!

 

no, that was never a truth, then.

the truth is the truth whether or not we know it. it was never 'fact' that the sun was moving around the sun; that was merely belief. how was it fact, other than that it was widely believed? facts do not change, but beliefs do. you say that truth only consists of what we currently believe; it is presumptuous to think that we have any bearing on what truth is. when humans believed that the sun moved around the earth, it was never truth that the sun moved around the earth. the truth remains regardless of our beliefs.

no!

when we say, "the sky is blue", what we mean is,
"the sky is blue. [disclaimer: items refer to the human eye unless otherwise specified.]"

because blue is simply a term to describe the human eye's perception of the wavelength of light, saying "the sky is blue" is true.


love,

 

truth doesn't need to be defended or spoken of to be truth - we have nothing to do with truth's continued existence as such.

if some religion happens to be truth, and the ignorant among us who do not recognize the rightness of it & attack it, then can't the religious defend their religion? of course; whether or not they defend it doesn't change the fact that it's truth, but maybe if they do, they can help us to understand.

along with the sky analogy..
if some of us think the sun moves around the earth, & some of us think the earth moves around the sun: if the latter is true, and the sun-movers attack the earth-mover's beliefs, they can defend themselves and their belief is still true.

but when you cannot defend yourself (which is what i think you were meaning to say), then your belief is stuck on the fence between truth and untruth. if you cannot defend yourself, your belief may still be truth (as we have nothing to do with what is true) though you have nothing to say about it.

what do we know?

 

though everything we experience as humans we experience subjectively, it doesn't mean that there is no objective experience. why do you claim there is no absolute truth? you seem to claim too much when we know so little.

 

But it was the truth to those people living then; they did not have the wider understanding we do now. It WAS a fact that the sun went around the earth, any fool could watch it do so! You can't apply modern understanding to ancient beliefs, because that is a biased, modernist interpretation. To those people, it was the truth. Their religions and philosophies reflected that.

I think you're getting too abstract, saying the truth exists regardless of the fact that no one knows it. How can it exist, when even the idea of it doesn't exist? As far as those people, with their smaller range of understanding, that truth did not exist.

Remember that idea that the world is an illusion, made up entirely of our perceptions? Well, that's true, 100%. That's not to say some real, objective world doesn't exist on it's own (not really on it's own, as we're integrally a part of it)...but all we ever know is our perceptions.

maybe we should define our terms, because I'm, as I write this rebuttal, starting to agree. I've always thought facts were relative, but is the "truth" equivalant to objective reality? Or is it sort of the sum total of our factual understanding worked into a worldview?

Alright, but no one really considers that when they say it. We are limited by our perceptions, and until recently didn't even know about how bees see colors. We figured the sky really WAS blue. And generally, even knowing about light refraction and such, still insist that, yes, the sky is blue. That is all we've ever seen it to be (minus sunrises/sets). We don't care about how a bee sees it. It is a human truth: the sky is blue.

 

the objective truth always exists,just by definition,even if reality is solely based on subjectivity and is different for everyone,then thats the objective truth.
there is no absolute truth...except that truth
and thats ok,who says contraditions dont work

"i think therefore i am" is a flawed statement.to make it flawless you'd have to change it to:
"there is something,therefore,there is something."
we dont know if "I" exists,or "thought" exists.
All that can be said is that ...sOmEtHiNg.... is goin' down,or went down,or is down,who knows,but something.
So yes you can doubt your own existance,but not existance of something.

and "nothing" exists by definition because it doesnt exist,get it?
theres is ALWAYS nothing,and there is ALWAYS something
the paradox is ultimate my friends

 

But this is a proccess that's gonna go on forever, things we believe to be the truth now on the future will be discard as misconceptions. So what can you say with absolute certainty that is true. I will say nothing.