Well, here I am. Some what bored and mind buzzing with thoughts. Therefore I figure I might as well toss a few things out there & see what happens. So without further delay on to the words... First off, i need to state that i am somewhat anti-alcohol. Not saying we should go all prohibition but definatly the laws need to be rethought quite heavily & ppl need to get some better control in this area. I definatly have a good example to lay out about this. What would a good rant be w/o a solid arguement ?? I think it would just be an empty, unsincere & poorly thought out ramble. So, here is exhibit A: The laws pertaining pot vs. alcohol. A 3rd DUI gets the offender about $1,000 fine & possibly up to 1 yr loss of driver's liscense. I know this for sure because my ex's stepdad got charged with that. This guy is beyond alcoholic, he's a flat out drunk. Not in a happy silly way, in all the stereo-typical foul ways, mean, super-short temper, aggressive & loud. Here is an example of him... After drinking all night(8pm - 2am+?) @ the bar he came home. Reeking as if he had been rolling on the floor @ the bar. Well, after sitting on the couch and argueing with & talking to the lamp for about 1/2 hour (NO joke) he decided he needed to go out for cigarettes. Well, he went out, started the car and fell asleep. Cop came by & decided to have a chat with him, I really have no clue how he weaseled out of that situation. But anyway that little story adds to my point I am getting to here. Ok then. I got busted with a gram of pot. 1st offense. I got a $350 fine + AODA + 1 yr probation. Ok, broken down to show my costs in this. Fine $350 + court costs $400 + AODA $250 + probation supervision fees @ $33/month ($396) + some DNA sample test thing i had to pay for $250... total of about $1,600-$1,700... And I had my driver's liscence suspended for 6 months. Both cases were handled in the same countySo, apparently me with my gram is more of a threat to society than a habitual drunk driver. How about a statistic? Here is one that has been thrown around alot on t.v. lately "1 in 3 ppl in fatal automobile acccidents tested positive for marijuana" Well that's interesting indeed. All the information would be nice to have... You know, little details like say, THC stays in your system for 30-40 days(at least i learned SOMEthing from AODA ^_^ ) What if alcohol stayed in your system the same amont of time. What would the statistic look like for alcohol ? 1 in 2 ?? 1 in 1.5 ?? or maybe even 1 in 1.1 !?!?!? I think it's a low blow by the anti-drug ppl to use this statistic without informing ppl of all the information. It's a low down, manipulative & dishonest tactic. Just another way in which the gov/media/whatever is using fear to control the ignorant general masses. Just as certain religions have done for thousands of years, but that's not the subject i am addressing here. :H Oh, and if you are wondering how much our lovely gov. is spending on the "War on Drugs" check this out... http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm I personally think if they took a fraction that money and diverted it more towards the War on Alcohol... wait... there is no War on Alcohol... I guess that has become too commonly accepted. BuT wait... alcohol is a drug. Apparently it seems that if enough ppl are doing a specific drug it magically becomes socially acceptable. Well, nicotine & caffiene fall into this catagory & they can be severly addictive. I am sure there are more socially accepted drugs, i just cannot think of any at this time. Now there is the arguement that alcohol has been around forever, it dates waaaaay back. True, what's your point ? Cannabis has been around just as long. Also it has done more for ppl in general than alcohol EVER has. Here is a link to a history of cannabis, it shows that it's been around for quite some time... http://www.ccguide.org.uk/chronol.html Here is another link, tends to lean a bit more toward hashish, but still provides a brief history none-the-less. It also has some other information located on the site you may find interesting, or not, whatever. Just sharing some knowledge when i find it. http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/history-of-marijuana.htm1 Yet another history of cannabis. Adds some information the others didn't... http://www.parascope.com/articles/0897/timeline.htm Ok, in all fairness i looked for a few timelines and chronologies on alcohol. Here is the first one. The thing i found interesting on this one is this factoid: 1814-1817 A new alcohol tax is temporarily imposed in the United States to help pay for the War of 1812. Huh... Kinda like a little banner saying " This war has been brought to you by booze !! " I wonder if the alcohol companies got to put their logo on the barrels of the guns, something they would probably expect to be done today... Anyway here is that link: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_timeline.php3 I know this seems a bit unbalanced, 3 links for marijuana & only 1 for alcohol but that's the only timeline i found for alcohol. Actually i found the last 2 marijuana timelines while looking for alcohol timelines My means of looking was Google. Searched for 'timeline of marijuana' then 'chronology of marijuana', the same for alcohol. I then looked through the first 5 pages of returned results and that's what i came up with. There were a few other intersting sites but these were the ones with a timeline like i was looking for. I also found this link to a general psychotropic substance timeline. http://www.taima.org/en/psychoactive.htm This one covers opiates, tobacco, cocaine, alcohol & cannibus. The part that i found particularly interesting is that not until the 1850-1875 range is cannibus mentioned as it's own category. To top it off it is even only mentioned as a medical herb in that reference. I guess this sorta turned into a alcohol vs. pot rant after all. Oh well, points have been made & maybe someone will learn something. Like i said i am NOT 100% against alcohol. Id be a liar if i said i have not gotten drunk a few times. Yes, drinking can be fun, but far too many ppl take it too far. Small example... More likely someone will say "one more drink, c'mon" to someone that has declared they are done than it is someone will say "one more hit, c'mon" to a toker that has declared they are done. So has been my experience from going out with friends and having get togethers @ my place. Someone doesn't take that one more drink they are a pansy, pussy, or some other general insult. Someone turns down one more hit most ppl tend to say " cool, man " and pass it on down the line. The whole general state of mind thing i guess. Peer pressure tends to be far less when pot is the drug of choice. Again, i say this based on experience with friends @ social situations. Social situations that generally range from 4 to 10+ or so ppl. Not many ppl just a nice get-together Enough to have a nice flavor of ppl just hangin' out having fun. Yet that element of peer pressure tends to creep in there somehow. Now like i was saying i am not all NO BOOZE, ONLY POT. Naw booze is fine if the drinker has one simple thing. Respect. Respect for the alcohol and what it can do to them. I guess knowledge would work in the same way but respect is something that tends to be easier to conjure up that getting knowledge out to ppl. As time has shown. Personally i have a mighty fine respect for any substance that i take that can alter my perception in any way. I also have knowledge so i guess i have a bit of an advantage there. I jut mean you have to know and respect that hey, one shot of alcohol CAN and does change your perception a bit. Maybe only mildy but it's there none the less. Same as one hit off that tasty bowl over there can change one's perception a bit too. Hell, what about that first cup of coffee in the morning ?? Surely if you have coffee every morning you notice a change in perception. Well, maybe not. Some ppl are unfortunatly unaware of this aspect or they are and just don't think about it @ all. Yet it is there even if only in a minor degree. Ppl need to have a better respect for their intoxicants of choice. They also need to realize that they too are as vulnerable to the effects (good & bad) as any other person. Well, I have laid the foundation. Post whatever you see fit as a response. Any response is awesome. I like feedback. Other ppl's opinion may be different but maybe they can bring up a point that i may have overlooked. So, with that i am done. It's up to you now.... :sunglasse
u should have put this in the marijuana forum if u wanted more reedback but ya good read altough i think ur feelings for alcohol have been skewed by being around that drunk guy its not that bad and can be really fun and does things weed doesnt such as take away peoples inhibitions (weed does a bit but alcohol as at a different level compared to weed for that)
Pot is my drug of choice, but I don't balk at drinking alcohol, it can be enjoyable too. I'm one of the "happy drunks" so I haven't really had any terrible experiences involving alcohol. I have a pretty dim view of prohibition laws overall, I think the high drinking age in America has led to the binging culture rather than curbed it.
i think mj and alchohol switch in legalization though ive never tried either...everyone i know that has used pot are still fine and normal...and most people i know that use alchohol have had bad liver problems and are really mean drunks
Well, I guess i'll respond to the goven responses in order. Kinda makes sense i would think. Also makes it easier to sort out what i am responding to instead of just doing one big general resonse which can tend to be redundant and maybe even repetative NeverMore98 - perhaps you are right about the forum thing. but no big. just getting some thoughts out and seeing what ppl have to say. As for having my opinion of alcohol skewed by the drunk dude, no. I had this general opinion of alcohol for quite some time before i met him. He just proved to me that the negative aspects are more fact than myth. Also when he would bring his friends home they were general of the same mentality. This guy ws a prime example of a true alcohol addict. A good way to show this is as follows. Ok, his first wife left him and took their 2 daughters and moved far away from him because he could/would not stop drinking. Later on my ex's mom would leave him for the EXACT same reason, thusly removing from his life another family. Now you would think that someone would possibly get a clue from this and maybe try to straighten up right ?? No, not in the least. I have seen him here and there since then and he is obviously the same. This is a guy who would start out on Friday night with like $350 and be broke by Sunday night. Only spending money in bars and on booze. Then be perplexed as to why the bills were never really getting under control. As to the alcohol breaking down inhibitions, no arguement there. But it also breaks down judgement extremely fast. An example of this i came across one day on a website. I would post the link but it was a few years ago and i cannot even begin to recall the address. Ok, they did a study on how alcohol effects one's driving ability. First they had ppl drive a test track a few times completely sober. Then they gave the person a beer or a shot equivilent to 1 beer, driver's choice i guess. Then they waited 15 minutes and re-ran the same course. Each person did significantly poorer than they had on the exact same course they had just ran less than 1/2 hour before. Many of the test subjects were even quite surprised at the results despite the fact that they did not feel intoxicated in any manner. Oh, and thank you for the 'good read' comment That is what i intended it to be. Glad to hear that i seemed to have done well at it. LuciferSam - I totally agree alcohol can be fun. But it is aldo something that some ppl tend to overdo and then it can lead to the problems. I mean going out maybe once a week or so and drinking socially with friends, no big deal at all. But if that once a week starts turning into maybe a drink or 2 at home here and there and then maybe a drink a night and so on. Most ppl don't even notice this progression. It may take a year or two for it to increase like that but it is still a growing dependancy none the less. As for the binge drinking, well, hell i even did that. Turned 21 and sorta drank like every other night for a month or 2ish. I don't mean drunk every other night, maybe just a few or so. But got drunk about once a week or so. Then after a while it just sorta lost it's appeal to me after a while. I dunno just didn't like it anymore really. Willy_Wonka_27 - Switching the 2 in legalization would be by far improbable. Would be nice but unlikely. I also have noticed similar result in ppl i have known. I also have noticed that the ppl who tend to drink alot tend to get a bit stupider. I mean to say that they seem to only run on preprogrammed responses. The amount of original things they seem to come up with to say gets deminished. They seem to get stuck in a certain mind set on most everything. Never any variations on their arguements, always referring to the same old thing base arguement without much elaboration or many new ideas added on. Even if their set ideas have been proven wrong, they insist that it's right. Hence reason i said stupider. Perhaps close-minded would be a better choice of words. Same result either way. Well I thank ye' all for the responses so far and hope more come in.
Sinfire, you do know that alcoholism is a disease, and it isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is to quit. My father is an alcoholic. I lived with it all of my life. I know exactly what you were describing, except my dad does not drive drunk, probably why my sister and I have never even considered driving drunk. It is all in what you teach someone. However, my dad loves to argue with inanimateobjects, particularly radios, tvs tikki lamps and the pool. Mostly, I find it funny, but in general it is not, because more often people are hurt by my father's words. But I have learned over the years, that he is sick. He doesn't go to the bar because that is silly. Drinking from home is much cheaper and more comfy. He drinks about 18 beers a day. He blacks out about 1 per week. His liver is shot. He shakes constantly when not drinking and having a semi coherent conversation with him, is at best a challenge. But you know what? I know that despite all of this, my father loves me and I love him for who he is. Our bills were always paid, my father has excellent credit, a big house, retirement fund. He made sure I went to a good private school. We took nice vacations. He gets up and goes to work every day for the last 30 years to the same job. We never went hungry. He pays for part of my college education. He never missed one of my volleyball or basketball games in school, and he sat with me at the dining room table for countless hours helping me to understand algebra. He honestly wants for his children to be better than he is. He is aware of his shortcomings and he doesn't want us to make the same mistakes. My father is a functioning alcoholic. He has attempted to "quit" at least 5 times in my life. There was a period of 2 years when my father did not drink, it was wonderful. Even though we all know that the drinking is going to kill him, we also know that he is never going to stop. I don't lump every single person who drinks into the same category as he. Everyone including myself who has a drink every now and again, are not alcoholics and should not have to justify wanting a drink. By the same token, I would rather get high than drink most days. Unfortunately, that is not as easy. I do agree that the laws for pot need to be relaxed a bit. And I tell you what, no one should ever be driving under the influence of anything. I hate when people say "but I drive great when I'm stoned". The very thought makes me cringe. No you do not. Get over your ego. I've had two friends die that way. You can't have a double standard. If you want to get smashed in any way shape or form, go for it baby I'm right there with you, but there is no reason to be irresponsible and put other lives at risk. I suggest you do some further, scientific, unbiased research on marijuana, before you begin to suggest that it does not impair a persons ability to react, think and recall. (all of which are necessary to drive my friend). I'm not dogging pot either. I enjoy it. As a matter of fact after this post I'm probably going to go smoke up. I just didn't think that you gave this a fair amount of thought and I wanted to provide my two cents on the matter. And there are stoners out there who take pot smoking too far in my opinion. They don't function in society. Hell they don't even function on a couch! I lived with some. They couldn't hold jobs they were in trouble with the law, they were obnoxious about their "habit". Again, I don't base my opinion of pot smokers on these few either. And if you want to argue over which drug makes one less intelligent, find some scientific evidence from books or other medical publications. I tend to be quite leary of websites. Don't believe all of the propaganda either way. If you want to seem like you know what you are talking about regarding the subject, don't jump to conclusions about people, and get some good evidence. http://www.dpalliance.org/homepage.cfm and http://www.norml.org/ are good places to start on the web. There are many activists in my area and we protest and hand out flyers at as many political gatherings as we can. I suggest contacting some activists in your area and become part of the solution to this inequality.
Yeah man, i drank a lot of caffeine today, about 4-5 hours ago, and i still feel really wired and sick, this drug has more bad effects than if i had smoked a joint, if i had done that, the worst case scenario would be me sitting around eating chips and watching cartoon network. Peace and Love, Dan
lol - well, not at the sick part But i have done that and know exactly whatcha mean... I think most ppl have done that actually. Unless of course you don't like coffee. Then well, best desription might be it's sorta like a mild-moderate nausea. Depends how much you drank. Either way it's just an icky feeling.
Yeahhh, and replying to your earlier post, of course the government will legalize a drug like alcohol which makes you fat, lazy, and stupid. That's what they want us to be, but of course they tax the shit out of it, so it forces the alcoholics to work and furthur the government's system. The Beatniks and Flower Children of the 50's and 60's were influenced by marijuana, which makes the government fear it. That is my view on it... But than again, many people who smoke pot become fat, lazy, and stupid, so it can go both ways...The best argument i have is that alcohol has killed thousands and pot has killed NOBODY (In terms of a chemical overdose or poisoning...) Peace and Love, Dan
That's also not taking into account traffic deaths, drownings(which the leading cause of is alcohol), and the countless other means by which someone can die due explicitly to alcohol. Then there are the countless broken homes, abuse cases, and other social issues that alcohol can bring on. I know that there are ppl that can get aggressive on pot but that is generally due to the fact that they truelly have an aggressive personality. I mean how often do you hear about someone coming home stoned and beating their spouse or kids ?? Ok, now how many drunk ppl do you hear about doing the same thing ?? ... ... ... ... There ya go. Like i said somewhere above, the first thing to go when you drink is your judgement. Think for a second on how much you actually need to use your judgement in a skillful manner of some sort. Be it driving, operating some other vehicle, even walking... It may be a passive judgement skill but it is still there. The leading cause of snowmobile accidents in this state is, yep, alcohol. Now a stoner( <-- term used loosely here) knows better to get on a snowmobile stoned. Usually because it's too damned cold !! That and it's just way too much of an effort to get all the gear on to stay warm. Better just to stay inside and relax within the cozy walls of your abode. Granted if pot were legaized i am sure that some social issues would arrise. Then of course the anti-drug ppl would be all over those issues. Then go and talk about them over a drink...
Theres no versus about it, pot and booze make great bedfellows. There are certainly more negatives to alcohol then pot, but there are downsides to both. I dont smoke pot anymore, because I'm working on geting really good shape (THC binds to hemoglobin making exercise very inefficeint) I still drink a bit though. Honestly pot and alcohol are both fine in moderation. Going overboard with anything will fuck you up, but alcoholism has some particualrly negative consequences.
Well put. that was the term i have been trying to think of but just could not catch. In moderation. The problem is that in moderation is a term left open to suggetion. Granted i have not smoked in like 5 month but that is because i am getting near the end of my probation, like 4.5 months yet. I simply don't want to risk a bad UA and have it extended in any way. Or go to jail for it. Been there, done that. Before i quit i was smoking on a regular basis, despite being on probation then. My p.o. then didn't do UAs, well i had one in a year. Was bad, but just got a warning and told "NO, stop it." But since i moved my p.o. here has done like 5 or 6 UAs so i am by no means risking anything. Like i was saying i was smoking pretty regular, a bit in the afternoon and then in the evening. As mentioned somewhere in one of my posts. I moved, and quit. Plain and simple. Now i am just waiting for Nov. 5 to come around so that i can resume. Of course in moderation like before, prob. less than that though. before i quit i had been smoking on a fairly regular basis, like every day but not excessivly, for about 6 years. I ask one question based on the previous self-example... You think that somebody that was drinking for that time could do the same thing ? Figure that the alcohol equivilent of what i smoked per day was equal to like 6 or so beers. Not alot but not exactly a little. Personally i don't think a drinker could do it that cut and dry. Just my opinion. Yes, i know everybody is different, no arguement there. Just saying. And obviously i plan on resuming. I have my reasons for that though. Since i stopped i have definatly become more reclusive and less social. Granted i don't know anybody where i am living now but when i had moved before and was smoking on a regular basis i simply felt more comfotable going out and being social. I know, it's called social anxiety, i am well aware of that. I am also well aware of a few other 'mental' problems i have. From previous diagnosis and just from basic self observation. I grew up with, but not out of, ADD and dysthemia(mild-mod. depression) I have been on alot of different prescriptions for them in the past as well. And i know this may sound a bit odd but honestly, pot has worked for me better than any perscription i have ever been on. I can' really explain why that is nor quite honestly do i want to. I am sure that somehow if asked a professional that it would be called some sort of dependancy or something alot those lines. I know all about the disorders i have and i know how to do self-observation. Definatly a good skill to know. I have looked at how i have been on perscriptions and off, and how i have been on pot and off. And quite honestly what all those perscriptions that were supposed to help me i can get from pot. The pills never really fully helped me. Sure they did a bit but not in all areas that i needed them to. Each one only helped out a bit and mixing the different pills would have definatly NOT been a good thing to do to get the 'full effect' of what i was supposed to get from them. Or i can smoke a pot and i actually don't have any of the problems i used to from these various disorders that i am ohhh so privilaged to have Like i said it may be able to be written off somehow in some way as a dependancy but i am obviously not dependant on it if i can simply quit after 6 years. Could it be psycho-sematic ?? Possibly, but if by some means i am getting these results rom pot that way, is it really such a bad thing ?? If i can smoke pot and be a more productive and basically stable person in life than if i try whatever the next miracle pill why can't i smoke ? Ask the professionals, they still don't have a clue as to exactly what pot does to the brain. So could it not be conceivable thatpot could be a simple cheap, natural cure to many of the mental disorders out there ?? I say, ohhhh most definatly. But digress, this is just my observations and i carry no degree whatsoever in any field so obviously i must not have aaaany idea what i am talking about What about in about a year or so when i move to California ?? I am fully planning on going to college for Psychology & Philosiphy, maybe Politics too not sure just yet. Maybe after i get my degree i can have an official opinion and start to change things for everyone. I know i will sure as hell try.
Here is what I think. I'll make this as simple as I can, for those of you with an apparantly delayed synaptic flow. 1) This topic is hardly new; quite redundant, actually. 2) Not everyone who drinks is violent. 3) Not everyone who smokes pot is peaceful. 4) You have idiots that use them both, and you have intelligent people that use them both. How a person will react under the influence of a certain drug is more about the PERSON than it is the DRUG itself. 5) I drink. I am a responsible drinker. I don't drink and drive, and I have never hit a person over the head with a bottle while drunk. 6) I think they should BOTH be legal (along with all other drugs). Unlike some of you FASCISTS, I believe people have the right to put into their body whatever they choose. 7) You people who are so adament on stereotyping are just MORONS!
Good luck with the probation thing and going to school in Cali. I've smoked pot for the past 4 years pretty heavily, like 4 or 5 times a day, and I also have general anxiety so pot really helped. Now I'm exercising, plus I think I might have a mild allergy to the cheap (schwag) local crap cause every time I smoked it I got all raspy, so together they are bad for me personally, I've been off pot for about 4 months and its been kinda harsh, but the exercise is really good for my anxiety... too bad i can't have the best of both worlds. I'm studing to be a medic right now, and after that I want to learn about Neurochemisty, maybe get a P.H.D. but I'm young and theres some other crap I want to do first. THC's major action in the brain is reducing the amount of synapses sent betweeen neuro-transmitters, much like the benzodiazapine class of anti-anxiety meds (Xanax, valium) but without nearly as many negative side effects. Marijuana has been much more effective for me then these 'traditional' anxiety medications. I wish the stigma around pot would go away so it could be prescribed for medicinal purposes, such as anxiety, and more prevalenty cancer, arthiritis, and many more serious medical concerns which pot works wonders.
Well, i response i Pressed_Rat state the following, as i am trying to respond to most posts on this thread: 1) Maybe, but this is me getting my voice out there, cuz i can 2-3) as i havestated somewhere in there... 4) this i have also mention about good & bad, and yes it is the perosn, as i have also said 5) 6) agreed 7) I have made it clear that i do see both sides of this issue. I am also basing what i say from personal experiences, good & bad. So if there is any stereo-typing going on it's not intentional and if it appears to be stereo-typing than perhaps there is a fair element of truth behind some of the stereo-types. ok, Lodui... TY for the luck, just a matter of time now. Good luck to you as well on the P.H.D. i had decided when i turned 18 tht i was going to experience some life before i went on to college and whatnot. I think it gives ppl a better outlook on the world if they actually experience it before they worry about careers and the like. I know if i do go into psychology, as planned, i'll definatly have a more real outlook on things than someone who goes straight to college from high school. Sure you can learn from the books but you can't learn life from a book. I mean even if i am in college for 8 years i'll still only be 32-33 when i get my degree, with some real experience as to how the really real world works. As for your medical desription, i did know that, just not the technical terminology for all the part of the processes & parts. I know how that whole function works but would be at a loss to try and actually explain it. As far as the legalization for even medical purposes there is but one question that can answer what i think is the main reason it is not legal.... Where's the profit in that ??
Nah, because those anti-drug people are so brainwashed that they judge morality on legality. Once something is legal they all think its ok and morale because our government approves of it. Peace and Love, Dan
Yeah, i know some people who are drunk all the time, and they are the nicest, coolest people i know, the way i look at it, EVERYBODY is addicted to something, and if they aren't being abusive and causing others harm, let em live their lives.... Peace and Love, Dan
Well I have some stomach issue that keeps me from drinking alcohol. But I do enjoy somkin the herb I also believe that it should be legal, or at least decriminlaized and allowed medicinally. After I had my gallbladder out I couldn't eat for weeks, and was super-sick every day. The only thing that helped (including all the meidcations I tried with my doctor) was pot.
