Questions about the Bhagavad Gita

Hullo all.
I've started reading the Bhagavad Gita that is available on the ISKCON website. Now I know some of you have problems with ISKCON (I myself don't know enough about it to have an informed opinion) but it's there, and therefore I'm going to use it

But, not being raised with any sort of Hindu culture at all, a lot of things are confusing to me, and I thought this would be the perfect place to ask a few questions, if you'd be willing to help. I'm resolving to read 1 chapter a day, because frankly it's all I've got time for, so I may post more questions later. but for right now I've got two questions.

1. What is a ksatriya?

2. I don't understand why Arjuna must fight. Is Krsna telling him to do so? if so, why?

I'm sorry if these questions are completely stupid, but I'm really trying to understand what I'm reading. Any help at all would be most appriciated.

~Layla

 

If you'd like a different version of the Gita online...try this one:

http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/gita.htm

I find it quite helpful.

I can't really answer your first question...actually I can't really answer the second...because I would not want to give you a false answer...incase I understand wrong...but...Krishna explains it to him later....so you may understand when you find out when Arjuna does...also someone else here might answer better than I can...and don't worry...there are no stupid questions (if there are...I promise I've probably asked them heheh)...it took me multiple readings to understand...and sometimes I still don't think I do...

 

I'll stick my neck out and try to answer you.

In Hindu culture is a four-fold division of society into the following 4 castes - Brahmin, Kshatria, Vaishya, Sudra.
Brahmins reperesent the priestly caste. Kshatria are warriors, Vaishyas merchants, Sudras workers.
Arjuna is a kshatria.

There are many reasons why Krishna says he must fight. Some of these reasons, the cause of the war, for instance, are part of the story of Mahabharata of which the Gita is part.
But there are also philosophical reasons. In short, the idea is that everyone has a path in life which is their's to follow - this is called svadharma. It is based upon the karma of the individual soul what this will be. But in Arjuna's case, he is a warrior, who has spent his whole life training for this, and in fact has aquired from Shiva and others special weapons to use in the battle.
There is the idea that by doing one's own duties, fulfilling one's true role in life, svadharama, one also serves the divine.
If Arjuna had refused to fight, he would have deviated from his own correct path. He would be like the merchant who refuses to sell anything, or even the tree which refused to produce leaves. There are very deep issues here.

Also - the reasons Arjuna doesn't want to fight are ultimately selfish - he is experiencing chronic attachment to his relatives on the other side, despite their betrayal and their ursurping of the kingdom, and quite naturally he is fearful before a big fight. He has temporarily lost sight of the real issues. He has lost sight of his true self. At that point, he represents the human being overwhelmed by the contadictions and so on in this life. He has clearly not lost sight of God completely, but maybe he's moved out of harmony with God's will.
If Arjuna had refused to fight, he would have been the loser, because the war would have gone ahead anyway, with or without him. All he would accomplish is his own humiliation.

It may appear strange at first to those bought up under Christianity to think of God actually encouraging someone to fight and kill. But Jesus too said - 'I come not to bring peace on earth, but a sword'.

 

A Ksatriya was a member of the warrior and administrator division of the Vedic society in existence in India at the time of the events in the Gita.

To list these divisions, very briefly and simply:

Brahmins...spiritual leaders, intellectuals, teachers

Ksatriyas...administrators and warriors

Vaisyas...business, agricultural, financial, and professional people

Sudras...tradespeople, artisans, laborers

Krishna teaches in the Bhagavad-Gita that by performance of his/her own duty in one of these divisions, along with development of spiritual life under the guidance of a guru or spiritual teacher, a person can both satisfy material needs and eventually attain spiritual perfection.

Arjuna was a Ksatriya or warrior and his duty in this particular situation was to fight...he was hesitant and Krishna, as his spiritual teacher, begins the Gita by explaining the reasons that he should fight, and why he isn't violating spiritual principles by doing so.

I'm kind of the voice of ISKCON here and consider the version you are reading to be more than adequate...most verse by verse translations are pretty much in the same ballpark but the purports or interpretations of the verses vary widely...that's what we've debated a lot here.

I would finish the one you are reading and then read two others by different authors, to get the full spectrum. Read the verse translations only first, to get a feel for the whole book, and then come back and read the purports.

I'm sure that the other regulars here will be more than happy to offer their advice...please ask questions.

 

Almost synchronized replies there from Spook and myself -


Please do ask any questions you may have - you'll get different sides of the thing here, as we have a spectrum of different interpretations and people with different views.

 

Spook and bill covered it mostly.

I would like to point out a couple of other things about the war aspect. IN todays world, when war wreaks such chaos it may seem that the last thing the world needs is another scripture egging people on to fight. But the war itself is not properly understood.

First of all, the two sides of the war were very clearly divided. Even many those on the side of Kauravas (the bad guys) knew they were siding with evil, but felt duty bound to do so (a lot of complex back-stories come in to explain that). Today that sort of clarity is not there. Both sides are busy pointing fingers at others without self-exmaination.

Secondly the wars in those days were between armies, no civilian casualities, no collateral damage. Even within that, a warrior only took on another warrior of equal stature and rank, so a great cavalry-man would not attack footsoldiers. Also before the war soldiers wer assembled on the battlefield and they were given a chance to change sides if they felt moved to do so. The option of not fighting was also available.

As you can see obviously the situations are entirely different and so the gita can NOT be used as an excuse to fight a war in today's world.

 

there is as well a consideration that the battle of kuruksetra was allegorical to the battle we wage against our senses and desires that pull us every which direction which leads to anger and delusion lest one take up yoga and unite with the divine... the numbers of soldiers assembled there suggests if there was an actual battle, it certainly was hyped up for the mahabharata

 

Yes, thats an important point Chief - extending the allegory we can say that Arjuna's doubts and hesitation are symbolic of the doubts we all face in this life, which sometimes prevent us doing what we should do. Sometimes, it seems it might be easier if we could just run away - (into unconsciousness perhaps?) - than to face our own destiny.

 

wow.

Seriously, you guys rock. I think I understand this stuff now.

Well, at least until I read more tomorrow....lol. Thank you all so much

~Layla

 

you will get some essential points from acbs' gita as it is but remember, he was a fundamentalist who actually believed there was 640 million soldiers gathered there to fight and anyone who is familar with logistics would see what an impossibility this would be

he as well, belabors the idea of bhakti to be some type of social servitude of slave consciousness to the institution he founded (iskcon)... bhakti is one on one to krishna or whatever chosen deity one chooses to worship... yes, there is the concept of dasanudas (sevant of the servant of the lord) but this idea is best understood in relation to what is a siddha pranali practive where it is understood that we are all in someway, Sri Radha's assistant in bring pleasure and enjoyment to Krishna

 

Extending the symbolism of the gita...

We see Arjuna as the jiva, the individual soul, riding in a the chariot of the body. The chariot is drawn by five white horses - the five sense organs. They are white, the symbol of sattva or purity. So we see that the jiva has already purified his mind and senses.

But who is the charioteer? Krishna - our inherent divinity. All the five horses' reins are in the hands of Krishna, who then teaches Arjuna the highest truth. When all our senses are divinzed, then knowledge arises within us and we experience enlightenment.

 

I see you're a fan of George...understatement? He was a great soul.

 

I am a huge George fan. That's actually how I really came to find out about all this in the first place

anyways, another question for you all, since you're so good at explaining this stuff and I am not all that bright...

let's see if I can word this right

the line "The wise grieve neither for the living nor for the dead" confuses me. I'm not exactly sure of what the meaning of it is. Is it not right to mourn the suffering of others?

as always, thanks for the help

~Layla

 

Yay for George....lol...that's how I got into this myself...

I'll try this one...someone correct me if I get this one wrong... but I believe that one should not mourn for the living or the dead because they know that we are not of these bodies...but rather all souls who have no birth nor death...but, ironically to quote the Gita, "There was never a time where you nor I did not exist, nor is there any future where we shall cease to be"...
(I think that's 2:12...but don't quote me on it)...also in George Harrison lyrics'

"I've been traveling around the bend
There was no beginning,
There is no end,
It wasn't born and never dies..."- "Any Road"

 

there is the definition of kuruksetra being "place of the body"

 

This verse means that a self-realized person always sees the eternally blissful spiritual reality behind the conditions of strictly material consciousness...birth, disease, old age, and death. As a consequence, this saintly person does not mourn loss or death in the same way that a materially-conditioned person does, but at the same time has unlimited sympathy and compassion for those that are suffering, because he/she can truly see that suffering without end is the inherent condition of material existence, as well as what those in such a material condition are missing by not being aware of their spiritual life.

I was trying to remember which song of George's had this line.

You got the Gita verse meaning right, as well.

 

What you need is a good commentary on the Gita, a mere translation will NOT suffice. Each verse has great depth and hidden meaning, which cannot be understood at first glance. For this reason I must say that a chapter a day is far too much. It is like trying to eat an entire jumbo apple pie with one bite. My guru always suggested 5-10 verses daily, or even less, according to your time limits.

 

Bhaskar,

I always find it helpful to first read just the English verse translations in a chapter, to get the overall feel, then go back and read everything in a more studious fashion.

I've also got a very well produced audio recording of the English verses of SP's entire Gita...I used to listen to it while working. It's amazing what you can absorb with just passive hearing.

 

My point is that you may geta feel, but you don't get the true depth of it until you study deeper.

Absolutely! I do this all the time. Whenever I am driving, bicycling wlaking, taking the bus, or sleeping, I have my gurus lectures on bhagavatam or ramayana playing. My attention fluctuates, but it amazes me how many of these verses have become a part of me, now it contues to play on in my head without the cds. It has become the eternal background score to my life.

 

For the more advanced or intermediate student of the Gita, I highly recommend Sri Aurobindo's 'Essays on the Gita'. You can get a taster at either of these links:

http://intyoga.online.fr/eog.htm

http://www.miraura.org/lit/sa/eog/eog-sel.html