ABORTION....?! yay or nay?!!

Obviously, but it's a downer that things just are that way, eh.

Hmm, life. It's pretty crazy.

 

One: I want abortion to be legal.
Two: If it becomes illegal, I would oppose an exception for rape and incest.

If a fetus is protected by law, that protection should not be removed just because the father is a criminal.

The severe emotional distress that a rape victim may go through should not remove the fetus' legal protection. "I feel real bad about it" is an insufficiant reason to remove another's rights.

I REPEAT: I support the current abortion laws.

The above reasoning is one of the reasons that I support the current laws. Making abortion illegal would require that we either force rape victims through even more misery OR we extent legal protection depending on the character of one's parents. Neither are acceptable to me.

 

Yup.

 

if abortion is legal, how can an individual be charged with the murder of a baby?

 

That's what Scott Petersen's lawyers wanted to know.

 

I respect everyones opinions, but me personally I am pro-life. I chose this because my father wanted me aborted, but my mom refused. My father left my mom and I ended up being adopted. I might not be here today if it weren't for my mother's pro-life opinion.

 

..And I totally agree with you! I was simply responding to the points which I outlined from your previous post and pointing out how some short-sighted individuals (many of whom claim to be christian) eschew birth control outside of abstinence and deny human nature for what it is.

 

I practice/practiced abstinence.

 

the current reasoning is that sex is so important that we can kill living entities so that people can do it

that isn't any better and you damn well know it

 

dude, its free love

people should be able to fuck and have like no consequences.

 

Okay sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought you misread what I wrote or something, hehe.

 

Because we can't go around picking other's babies to abort. Peterson's wife fully intended to have that baby.

I'll admit the sketchy legal ground in this case, though. If the mother was killed and the baby died because it needed it's mother to survive was the baby murdered too? How far along was the baby, was it old enough that it could have survived without the mother? Things like that should be, and I'm sure was, considered when convicting someone of a crime like this.

 

that changes nothing.

Again, that changes nothing.

In order to be charged with murder you have to kill a human being. If a fetus is NOT a human being, how can you be charged with murder? If it is a human being, how can you murder it legally? The law may be needed, but it is absolutely NOT consistant logically. Then again, what law is?

the definition of homicide in Denver is this:

"
Criminal Homicide is the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by another."



http://www.denvergov.org/2001_crime_stats/template34725.asp

 

i totally believe in abortion rights. i fought like hell for it during the 60's with women's rights organizations. can't believe this ego-maniac right wing motha fucker bush and his bushwackers are trying to get rid of it. i believe in it especially for rape/incest victims.
hippiewise angel

 

The phrase "living entities"? Is it a way to avoid calling a fetus a "child" or "person"? (I am aware that ,in public forums like this one, using those terms creates more heat than understanding and, so , I avoid them.)

Are you extending the animal rights/ vegan postion to the abortion issue?

Or do you contend that the fetus is an unborn person, entitled to full legal protection under the 14th ammendment, etc.?

I contend that unborn people do not fit into either of the legal categories of "person" or "not person."

If it is a person:miscarrages would result in investigation by the state and require death certificates and autopsys. A pregnant woman would be constrained by what the state thought proper pre-natal behaviour. Busybodies would have state sanction to hound pregnant women. "Oh honey, you shouldn't (X) while in a family way, its not good for the baby. And if you (X), I'll call a cop."

On the other hand, unborn people are not simple pieces of tissue. Consider that a teenage girl can not have her ears pierced without her parents consent, but (in CA) she can have an abortion in secret. This inconsistancy reflects the fact that the unborn will become a person. (i.e. pregnancy is more important that ear piercing.)

 

RE: can't believe this ego-maniac right wing motha fucker bush and his bushwackers are trying to get rid of it.

Didn't he arrange an abortion for one of his girlfriends in the 60s?

 

Well, keep practicing until you get it right, I guess.

 

I think abortion is justified. If you don`t feel like you could give the baby a quality of life or whatever, then why bring it into this world to make yourself unhappy and resent it?
The same with if someone is raped and fell pregnant. Why should they have to bring this baby into the world?

 

Most pro-lifers believe that abortion is murder... is it fair to ask someone to ignore murder, and just let it carry on because someone thinks it's their right to do what they want with "their bodies"? ... What if Ted Bundy didn't think what he was doing was wrong... is that any excuse to let him off?

My point is, pro-choicers generally think pro-lifers are close minded... but pro-choicers are just as insensative to the concerns of pro-lifers as vice-versa.

That being said, pro-lifers often are hypocritical, often being against long term life support for the brain-dead, and often being for capital punishment (execution) ... for pro-lifers, the variations come in how they define murder and how they define life.

Abortion itself is not strictly a women's issue however. Women, don't you want the father of your child to be a better father to your child? Don't you want him to love his child as much as you do? Don't you want him to help raise and nurture the child? And change diapers? And pay for education and food? If so, then I hope you are willing to recognize a father's natural, divine right to his children. And ... by the way... men have the protective instinct as well as women. So I say again, abortion is not strictly a women's issue.

For that matter, nothing is strictly a women's issue, just as nothing is strictly a men's issue. We're all human beings and we deserve to be respected as individuals, not as genders. If we want sexual equality, then we must represent that equality today without quarrelling about inequality and without trying to compensate or over-compensate. The solution is equality, not the empowerment of one gender over another.

I recently read a book by an obvious feminist, who shall remain anonymous. In her book, she always listed women before men to illustrate a point: that men are always listed before women in "mainstream culture" ... so, it was "women and men have done ...." or "girls and boys .... " etc... which seems like a silly thing to take issue with, but my point is this: she is trying to compensate for a world that is male dominated by making her part of the world female dominated. The ultimate conclusion of this philosophy, however, is a divided world where men and women live on opposite poles of power... but I thought we were looking for equality! Equality requires integration not segregation... so if your goal is equality, be an example of equality in your sphere, and do not fall into the trap of compensatory division. Unity is a result of love, division is a result of pride. Only love will bring equality and union between the genders, or any other conflicting groups.

PS: pro-life groups DO have shelters for women and encourage them and provide resources to them to raise their children... I know because I volunteer for a rescue mission for men, and our women's mission (which is run entirely by women so I can't work there) is for women to get off drugs, and to help them raise their children in a healthy, safe environment. (I think they call it New Faith Family Center, but I could have the name confused) The service is absolutely free, and functions entirely on donations from generous peoples and organizations, mostly Christian if not wholly Christian, as does the men's mission which is a soup kitchen and homeless shelter. The women's shelter provides shelter for over a year when needed, and also helps plug women into transitional or low-income housing.

PPS: I take no stand on abortion... mostly because the issue has never come up for me personally so I was never forced to touch on a delicate subject... if the issue does come up personally however, regardless of legal principals, I would encourage a woman, my wife, girlfriend, or just friend, to have the child, but would not badger, shame/pariah her if she did abort. I would be emotionally supportive either way.