to sign or not to sign...that permit!!

Hey Family!!! One of the important topics discussed at the Thanksgiving council in Paonia, was that permit signing issue... no consensus. Let's have some discussion. Presently there is some heated debate going on on the yahoo colo. rainbow family group, and I thought if I go some more imput from ya'll (SoaringEagle, Hippiestead, DrumminMama...all longtimers and everyone else)...I can suggest to the other Colo. Family, some type of plan regarding this dang permit signing.

Most Kindly Appreciated! Loving YOUUUUUUU!

 

signing can be ok if it's an actively negotiated permit . we can be progressive in limiting law enforcement presence within our peaceful gathering .

 

I'm sorry but how can someone sign to represent a non-organization of a leader-less gathering... would you want someone signing for you? Also what about the right to gather on public lands? From what I understand, once some signs that permit, that person that is signed is responsible for ALL ppl gathered and there actions, etc. (that person can be ticketed and sent to jail... as "plunker has") There is a HUGE convoluted implication to signing that permit...

What I am trying to find out, is what are ALL those implications... for the signer and the ppl that are implicated by that signing.

From what I understand, ppl were ticketed for pee-ing and being nude, once that permit was signed.

 

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for a good perspective of all dem implications , it'd well to talk with
experienced people recently involved with a permit signing council .
several permits to gather have been signed as of late by
consensus' of various permit councils .

we can't argue 'basic rights' with an administrative agency . we
can only negotiate some specific conditions . the fundamental
right to gather definitions are made by congress or the courts or
the people . the same with what is religion . plunker would like
them all to accept our gathering in nature as our religion .

europeans sometimes wonder about our troubles .
do they come from flying the u.s flag upside down ?

well , yaya , i spose i'm up for ceceding from the Onion . it's
not all that peaceful or free in the u.s.a. , but it'll probably
get better afterwhile someday ....as we love


and there may come a time when family does make
a defiant , reasonable stand ... when we say we are
absolutely home in this one place together and here we
grow our gardens . yet , this is simple in our dreaming , in
our way of becoming ...

 

sign .. im not to worried about the police !

this should run perfectly .ive only been to one gathering here in my state
and that was silida ...im sure with nationals there will be some police but not so many to ruin our time
like in michigan .

one love tribe -tgs

 

please, family with personal experiences dealing with the permit issue please respond. (not meaning to shrug off previous posters)

right now the colorado rainbow family is debating this issue..at thanksgiving council this permit signing was blocked at least 3 times.

right now there is a fella threatening to show up at the national just TO SIGN that permit.

if this permit is signed, it will NOT be a "Rainbow Gathering"...Rob and Diamond Dave and others do NOT support the permit signing.

focus pocus family...

 

regaurdless of where it happens it will happen !

 

One thing's for sure, somebody's gonna sign. I just hope the Annual uses the model Arjay et al used in Ocala last year, the multiple signer/"Permit Council" model, rather than a single signer. There's no getting rid of 36CFR251-261 any time soon, and in any case, expending energy fighting it is like swatting at flies while an armed mob (the Patriot Act) is rampaging through your house.

 

we're against permit signing because it makes one person responsible for everyone at the Gathering, yet it seems that these last few years the Family hasn't been allowed to Gather without one. The big question may be this: If the permit is signed, does that mean that the FS will pick the site like they did last year?

It'd be nice to find creative ways to fight the permits; we like the ideas that have been tossed around about making the gummint drown in their own sea of red tape & paperwork by finding a way to force them to issue multiple permits. one such idea has been to have all the larger kitchens set up far enough apart so that each kitchen becomes its own Gathering with a shuttle system to link the kitchens together. Unfortunately, a idea like this would take a lot of pre-planning and a lot of support; and honestly, not everyone in the Family sees the permit as a problem. Another such idea is to have coinciding Gatherings in every state that has a National Forest-but again the idea would take a lot of pre-planning & support, plus a concensus at Vision Council that this is the Vision of the Family. The multi-state idea would seperate the Family for a year, but it would also seperate the gummint resources.

Our basic response is hold of the signing of a permit as long as possible, don't submit to defeat before the Family has even had a chance to step on the land.

Note: In MO'96 the Family had the first real problem with the '75 rule'; the scouts created diversions by having small holding camps all over the state & didn't release site info until the latest date possible, so as to have a mass entrance into the site. Even then, Family claimed that the MO site was only a holding camp until the FS finally decided that the site was engaging in seed camp activities.

 

USFS was able to force us onto Cranberry Glades because of Family's own hard headedness. Had we worked more openly with them, we may have been able to find more sites like the Barton Knob altie site. As it was, it was the 19th of June, and we had held out for so long for the Bat Cave site that they were able to grab us by the short ones. In any case, I bet there's more viable sites in CO than there are all the way from ME to FL. This will improve our bargaining position, as will not being a 3 hour drive from the Dark Tower in DC.

The "Johnson (Jonson?) Test," which I believe came out of the Katuah case, requires 75 or more people in the same NF, no minimum distance between camps.

What a great bumper sticker for Vermin! "Quit testing our Johnsons! Revoke 36 CFR 251-261!"

Submit to defeat? We is done been defeated, when the Supreme Court refused to review the Apealate Court's decision in United States v Kalb. That was our Appamatox. Oue wannabe Lees (B****r) need to realize this.

 

anyway , isn't the permit signing question more a spring council issue ? and after a site is chosen ... then . we never need to institutionalize the family self , reserving the right to flex with the needs of the moment and/or otherwise be random .

 

but why do they need a signed permit to work with the Family?

guess we need to find a way around their Johnson

the Family is still Gathering, so we haven't been defeated. admittedly, it's harder to fight the permit issue because permits have been signed. not sure about the court case-lost faith in that system due to the machete case in MO

we still think it's a matter of out-foxing the Foxes (pun intended)

Here's a thought: What would the FS do if they recieved 1000 or more applications for permits in the same National Forest? Such a move might validate the point that the Rainbow Family is made up of individuals.

 

the permit issue has to be discussed now because now is the easiest time to get thoughts and ideas from more folks. besides, don't you think that the FS has been checking topos & trying to guess what site(s) the Family might choose since the day Vision Council ended?

 

At Thanksgiving Council I saw the FS proposed sites (thanks to Rob compiling the into a binder) not one of them was an appropriate site for the National. Too small of an area, too close to the roads, etc. Ridicules!!

From what I gather from the talks that we've had...holding camps until the very last minute of announcement and then a mass dash to the site.

I do like that idea of mass permit applications.. that's very Gandi-ish!!! I think I'll try to pass that on to the Colorado Family.

Thus far, everything is very hush, hush regarding sites being proposed. Primarily because of FS trolling these websites... I ask for good vibes to the Colorado Family for stay minded about this issue.

I myself have been gathering information off of AGR and the Yahoo posting site (tho' the yahoo group keeps flaming up)

Keep this dialogue hoppin!!!
Lovin' youuuuuuu

 

yaya , keep thinking about it . consider everything , and carefully ... at the first w.virg. site i listened in as two of the feds were making their invasion strategy , studying their maps , how to set up the most effective positions- and these are the guys not necessarily dressed in forest green and they scowl more than usual .

our only necessity is to have a gathering , and to advance peace .
peace is absolutely creative , in the moment , and always becoming .

west virginia thinks we are love . something advanced .
new orleans thinks we are love . we are becoming more and more ...

yaya , we are rising up . i mean to say , don't get cutesy , prepare to
negotiate from power .

 

we've been telling folks for years that internet makes some info too accessible-hush, hush is definately the way to go & don't underestimate the gummint's ability to snoop in on your personal e-mail & phone conversations (cell or land), especially if they think you might know something that they want to know

points to pass on: To make progress on this issue, organized ideas are a must, along with folks who know what's up and are willing to play whatever 'games' are nessessary.

Use more snail mail & less e-mail; folks need to remember that word of mouth worked very well for a lot of years.


oh and AGR-well they're too busy with the RMNT (or whatever those intials are) conspiracy theory to come up with any progressive idea concerning the permit issue

we'll check and see if there is any permit related chat on MySpace & let ya know if there's anything worth passing on

 

appreciate that Hippiestead! Hugs!

 

Hugs back!!

Nothing about the permit issue on MySpace & AGR had a new thread today about boycotting permitted Gatherings. we'd get into the thread with a post about how boycotting doesn't change the problem and is in effect ignoring the problem but last time we did that we got a bunch of flack about 'the secret inner circle that controls everything'

Gonna put a 'what to do about the permit' thread in the MySpace group tonite & see if the young'ens can come up with something; might PM the info from that to you Succulent Flower, depending on what suggestions show up.

 

I have maintained that I am against signing a permit....

However...thats not evolving with the issue...and I think
the issue is evolving. So my opinions are evolving.....
rather than remaining stagnant, besides maybe someone
told me to be anti-permit, and I once respected him.

I think that we better not forget who we are, and what
it is that we are actually doing on this planet as light
workers, or Rainbow Warriors....

The permit in Ocala was the test, and for five FIVE years
we tried to block it, but Sacarowe et al' pushed it through
and even stacked the council......Nasty Meanies

The Forest service did walk throughs, and there wasn't much
trouble....in the test....scenerio.......

Now that theyv'e got FS approved sites, all near
roads, and closed off for militaristic style invasions.

OM HOME OM

Boomer