Stop! Don't buy the Christmas' tree this year!

Hi every one, I hope you are all fine and happy
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I read these verses in the OT,
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Jeremiah 10:1-8: Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee. But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
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Do you think that the Bible predicted and forbade the doctrine of Christmas trees in the above verses? I don't know, but did Jesus peace be upon him recommended to do such thing? When did Christians start to do this for the first time if Jesus didn't recommend it and why and what does it mean or what is the point? Do these verses mean something else maybe? Anybody knows? Any comments.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Jesus was kind of into palm trees (palm sunday) and walking into town with all those palm trees, so if xmas trees are like palm trees then i guess it's good

 

No, it wasn't a prediction; people were doing that back then too. It's an ancient tradition for the winter festival to cut down and decorate a tree, often an evergreen because it's still green, as a symbol for the power of life in the face of death (shortest day and coldness of winter).

Now, I don't know about europeans as a whole, but I'm pretty sure the current manifestation of this tradition is from the Germans, who later brought the tradition to America. The Germans, having never been conquered by the Romans, held onto their pagan ways longer, and even after they converted still continued many of their traditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree#History

There are other common examples of using plants during Christmastime/winter solstice as symbols of life: holly, missletoe, and pointsettia.

Anyways, any religion that doesn't allow it's traditions to grow and change with the people who actually PRACTICE that religion is a dead religion. Religion is meant to be lived, not read about in a book...even if that book stands as an important part of your religion. This is such a minor thing to get upset about anyways...

 

Yes Christmas trees do come from Germany - they came to the UK during the 19th c.
However - some Germanic tribes were conquored by the Romans under Julius Ceaser - that's where his legions performed the virtual miracle of bridging the Rhine in about two days - to-day still engineers are baffled by how this was done. It's also important to remember that during the main part of the empire period, Rome too was pagan. Many of the Christmas things - even the time of year, come from Roman paganism.

 

Blah...I so dislike that word...heathen...the more it pops up the more I dislike it...

 

Heathen = one who lives on a heath - ie a rustic or rural type.
Interesting that 'pagan' derives from the latin peganus which also means rural, or a rural person.

 

Very true, maybe it's just the baggage.
I'm far more inclined to call myself a pagan. Unless I'm being sarcastic or something, then will say heathen or heretic. It's all pretty much the same thing though.

When it comes comes to christmas everything but the Jesus part comes from the 'heathens', even the date itself. Well come on, big of a huge coincidence for the son of God to be born during a Roman festival. It was such an enjoyable part of the culture that everything just melted together and evolved.

Incidentally my family hasn't bought a christmas tree since 1981, it's amazing how well those fake ones last.

 

Even the Jesus part in some respects comes from Pagans - some very basic Biblical concepts such as Jesus as 'the Word' (Greek - 'logos') derives not from Judaism but Platonism.
And also the myths of Jesus and Osiris are very similar in essence.

 

I'm pretty sure it took them 10 days, which is still pretty amazing. And I meant the greater part of Germany, you're right some were conquered.

 

Hey bill, dont forget Mithra! All sun gods were born in the winter, and the
Romans were very into the Mithric cults.

 

You're probably right - it's some years since I read about Ceaser's campaigns - Still, it was quite a feat.

 

Very true.

 

But actually, it just occured to me that I've been blind here.


The main reason not to buy a christmas tree must surely be on purely environmental grounds.
It is a waste.
It is using land which could be better used. Energy in huge amounts is being wasted in both processing the trees and lighting them up once they're decorated. Thus contributing to the global energy crisis and climate change.

Another example of how christianity is out of tune with the real issues of today.

 

we have a fake one, but you're right about the energy use. But that's a pretty small issue, more important would be encouraging us to drive less, buy less packaged goods and less processed food, less meat. Lighting a tree isn't really the worst thing in the world. And hell, to splurge a little bit for a holiday should be acceptable. It's just the general level of our waste, all year, that really needs addressing.

 

I agree Christmas trees are small fry. But actually, thinking about it, there's a lot of very wasteful things connected with Christmas - tons of plastic packaging for instance -
I'm not trying to be a killjoy here - just pointing to the fact that Christianity in gen is not the most environmentally friendly religion in the world - or rather that they don't encourage people to think in terms of a sustainable ecology.
It must amount to quite a pile of waste by say 27th december, and really, is it necessary to produce all that in order to have a good time? Doth it please the Lord??
It's all part of the commercialization of Christmas I suppose, and has evolved in modern times, but I find it hard to connect all this with any kind of spiritual message - more like rampant consumerism and selfishness.
And the factories that produce all this crap - illumunated rudolph's, plastic Virgin Mary's etc are producing it all year round. And my argument is that it is just crap which contributes very little to any real enjoyment of the holiday even...

 

Gratefuljefferson~
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what did Jesus do to you to make you say this about him?
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TrippinBTM
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after I read all responses, I think it could be somehow, Actually Christians were Jewish firstly, then they called Christians as a followers of Jesus. it is like God knew that they will do this in the future so he stated it, to warn them, verily, he is the All-Knower.
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! So they are not following what God has ordered to them, Oh =(, or maybe they don't know, thank you very much for the information.
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BlackBillBlake
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but as believers we shouldn't follow them, we should follow God and please him =(, I think they don't know maybe.
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plus:
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Oxford Dictionary:
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Heathen: —n. 1 person not belonging to a predominant religion, esp. not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. 2 person regarded as lacking culture or moral principles. —adj. 1 of heathens. 2 having no religion. [Old English]
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Sage-Phoenix
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OH!! I think then what I read is true 100%! I wanted to make more research but nay, it doesn't need. Verily, you are so Merciful God and patient on those who utters lies against you =(,
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I think it is not a big of a huge coincidence for the son of God to be born during a Roman festival
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may God bless your family, Amen, and bless all those who follow his teachings, Amen. So happy to read this. please, Send my regards to your family.
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BlackBillBlake
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O MY GOD! I read such thing few days ago! And I didn't pay it much attention! So it is true then.
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heron
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OH MY GOD! THEN IT IS REAL WHAT I QUOTED FOR THE MEMBER (SAINT STEPHEN) IN ONE OF MY THREADS!
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PAUL WHY? WHY PAUL? WHY? WHY IS THAT?
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I don't set aside my death by a heart attack.
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Please Christians let us follow God, this is a biblical verse =( *sigh*
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Please tell every Christian about this, please, make a call, send a message, and tell the Father and churches to declare this…Etc-
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Matthew 5.17:
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Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Alright, well, one must wonder whether the passage about adorning trees is an actual order from God, or a command from xenophobic priests trying to control the people of Israel. I mean, like it says, the tree does no good, but it does no evil either. It's just a decoration. so, what, shall we have no decorations? Should we celebrate our faith, or should we mourn it? ​

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Well, as the Christians would have it, Jesus came to fulfill the Law, and did so with his death. So, it no longer applies, as it has been accomplished. Thus, Jesus not only brought a new covenant from God (a new Law, so to speak) but also fulfilled the old one.

 

TrippinBTM
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I am really not sure if I get what you mean exactly, I think Christians believe that OT is the word of God, so it is a biblical verse.
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Myself [I believe that the God of Jews, Christians and Muslims is one and he who has revealed those three books, however, this verse matches with the Muslims' belief and orders too. Even if it is a fake not real tree it isn't permissible].
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myself I didn't find any verse in the Gospels which ordered to celebrate on 27th of December in such way! Is there such a verse? However, we can or you can celebrate your faith without disagreeing God's orders, that's up to you.
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Shall I say it or…
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Dear, read more about Paul, I don't want to ……… read more that's it,
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It is up to you
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Peace
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Dear brothers and sisters
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I wrote the verse which forbade this deed, so….. it is up to you, whether you follow God or your desire
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*'' Therefore remind (men) in case the reminder profits (them) ''
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*'' So remind them , for you are but a remembrancer. You are not a dictator on them '' '' you are not at all a warder over them''
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*'' And remind, for verily, the reminding profits the believers.''
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*''Then, if they turn away, your duty is only to convey (the message), in a clear way''
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O Lord, testify, that I remind them
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Your slave,
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Stevens
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Cat - do you really think it's that big a deal if someone has a christmas tree? Is it that grave a sin? And what about houseplants? If they're OK where do you draw the line?


I can't see any reason why God would be offended.

It's also worth remembering that there are very many things - rules, prohibitions etc which are laid down in the OT which christians don't apply to themselves - diet for one, circumcision, bloody sacrifice of animals - even the 'eye for an eye' principle.

I think myself that the reason for all the pagan stuff in christmas is the same as the reason for it in other aspects of christianity.
When pagans were converted, it was usual practice, laid down by Pope Gregory the Great, to assimilate as many of the existing pagan customs of a particular area to the new christian tradition as possible.
Hence, churches were often built on sites considered sacred by pagans, Bishops wear the Roman Imperial purple, many old English churches have carvings of stone which could be devils or could be pre-christian deities. And there are many other such things. For instance in association with christmas the use of miseltoe as a decoration - once again thoroughly pagan.

Although many Christians are not aware of the fact, and would strenously deny it, there was a great deal of input from paganism into christianity at both the popular and more philosophical levels.