Do you guys notice some homosexuality among (historical) national socialists?

Well, I am sure there are all sort of weird theories floating around about this, and for what I know, the might be true...

But I always thought that the level of camraderie expected between soilders in Nazi Germany almost bordered on homosexuality.

I mean do you guys see more Nazi/Gay connections?

 

well there were definitely "gay" connections within ancient armies. i tend to think of roman times... and those times in ancient sparta when men would be gone for years training and fighting. really any time men are surrounded by men for very long periods of time (jail?) they're probably going to get a little close right? doesn't necessarily mean they're gay though.. also, lots of older cultures, european cultures even today, are much less puritan than the U.S. and are secure to kiss each other on the cheek and participate in more "man-bonding" activities than the metrosexual, co-ed everything, today in pc america. that's a pretty general way of looking at it, but that's the jist of how i see it... seeing the homoeroticism in male-bonding whether through sports or war or whatever is probably looking a liiiittle too far into it... but it doesn't mean there aren't homosexual men participating in it either

 

WTF are you talking about it seems like you had read very little of ancient history .Pedagogical pederasty

Those scholars who prefer the historical approach are convinced that pederasty originates in Dorian initiation rites. The Dorians were the last tribe to migrate to Greece, and they are usually described as real he-men with a very masculine culture. According to the proponents of this theory, pederasty came to being on the Dorian island Crete, where grown-up men used to kidnap adolescents. It is assumed that this practice spread from Crete to the Greek mainland. In the soldiers' city Sparta, it was not uncommon when a warrior took care of a recruit and stood next to him on the battlefield, where the two men bravely protected each other. Especially in aristocratic circles, pederasty is believed to have been common. There are, indeed, a great many pictures on vases that show how an older lover, the erastes, courts a boy, the eromenos. They appear not to be of the same age: the erastes has a beard and plays an active role, whereas the adolescent has no beard and remains passive. He will never take an initiative, looks shy, and is believed not to have enjoyed the sexual union. His older lover reached an orgasm by anal or intercrural contact. ("Intercrural" means that the erastes moved his penis between the boy's thighs.) on a vase, you will never see a boy with an erection, even when his erastes touches his genitals. It is assumed by many modern scholars that as soon as the adolescent had a beard, the love affair had to be finished. He had to find an eromenos of his own.

[size=-2]A boy with a hare [/size]






Plato

 

[size=-2]Plato (,[/size]
[size=-2]Roma; )[/size]
As we have seen, the traditional image of pedagogical pederasty is simply mistaken, so what is its origin? The answer is the philosophy of the Athenian Plato. He has painted a very remarkable picture of his teacher Socrates, who is shown -in Plato's own words- as boy crazy. When Socrates was in the company of beautiful boys, he lost his senses. Some sort of mania (divine madness) took possession of him and he was almost unable to resist it. He often complained about the fact that he was helpless towards adolescents, and said that he could only cope with the situation by asking difficult questions to these beautiful boys and teaching them philosophy. So, according to Plato, Socrates sublimated his passion

 

[size=-2]Xenophon[/size]

This is not just Plato's portrayal of his admired teacher. That Socrates was well-known for this attitude is more or less confirmed by another student, the mercenary leader and author Xenophon (c.430-c.354). He informs us that his master, when challenged by the presence of a good looking adolescent, remained capable of self-control, but took some measures. He did not allow the boy to embrace him, comparing his kisses to spider's bites. Sexuality and other physical contact between teacher and student were simply unacceptable. This is a bolder portrayal than that of Plato (whose Socrates sometimes yielded to the temptation), but both writers agree that their master believed that the contacts between erastes and eromenos could not only be aimed at sexual love, but also at obtaining moral wisdom and strength. A rather remarkable educational ideal.
In this context, Socrates/Plato introduces an influential metaphor. Procreation, he says, can be earthly and spiritual, just like love. After all, love can be physical -aimed at the beautiful body of a boy- and spiritual, which he believes is on a higher level. This last type of love can be described as longing for something good and possessing it. The true erastes will prefer the beauty of the soul above that of the body. Instead of a material/earthly parenthood (the procreation of children) he prefers the spiritual type, which is the creation of virtue and knowledge. According to Socrates/Plato, the eromenos' understanding grows and in the end, he will be able to see a beauty that is above all earthly standards, compared to which even the most beautiful boy is nothing. In other words, by spiritually loving a beautiful beloved, the lover reaches an understanding of absolute beauty. Philosophy is, therefore, an erotical enterprise. It should be added that for Plato, the only type of real love is the love between two men, and he has dedicated two of his dialogues to that subject: the Symposium and the Phaedrus. After all, homo-erotic love is related to education and gaining knowledge, and this makes it superior to other types of love.

[size=-2]Socrates[/size]

In 399 BCE, Socrates was executed on a charge of corrupting the Athenian youth. This is a bit mysterious, because there was no Athenian law that said that people who taught bad ideas to young people ought to be killed. Socrates can not have been guilty of breaking any written law. However, his fellow-citizens have interpreted this "corruption of the youth" as a sexual corruption: they took literally Socrates' metaphor that he loved boys, and this was indeed breaking the old law of 450 (above) that forbade young citizens to sell themselves. Correctly or not, Socrates was held responsible for inducing boys to prostitution. Plato has tried to take away the blame from Socrates by pointing at his sincere and spiritual aims. In another context, he presents his master as saying that men who play the passive role are guilty of despicable and rampant behavior. After all, Socrates/Plato says, these men behave like women and are slaves of their passions. In the dialogue called Gorgias, Socrates declares that he is against all kinds of excessive sexual acts, and in Plato's main work, The State, Socrates even rejects all kinds of physical contact as some sort of unbridled behavior: the good lover treats his beloved one as a father treats his son. It can not be said whether Plato's description of Socrates' ideas and behavior correspond to what Socrates really said and did. What we do know, however, is that it was at odds with common behavior in ancient Athens.

 

..

 

i thought it was you...

 

Hush.