"How can someone be opposed to the war, be convinced that it is in every way an illegal and immoral policy of the US government, and yet still claim to support the troops charged with carrying out the illegal and immoral policy?" well? taken from http://www.jktarot.com/nosupport.html
It's right there in the quote - the troops are charged with carrying out the policy. The men and women actually fighting have no say about it, they're ordered to do it. If they refuse to fight or leave their post, they face court marshal or other disiplinary measures. I am fully behind the troops who are putting their lives on the line for us. I know a lot of them really don't believe in what they're doing themselves, and the ones that do are likely brainwashed by their training. But they're all doing what they're told, and that's the way it has be for a military organization to be efficient. That doesn't mean I have to be behind the foggies who put them in that situation. I believe the troops should have everything they need to fight and stay safe, and be able to come home when they have done their job. I also believe these politicians who think they have to start a useless, immoral, and illegal war somewhere to augment their morbid infatuation for power should be committed to the Fletcher Memorial Home for Incurable Tyrants and Kings.
Perhaps you are against the war but wish no ill will towards the troops? Or is it somehow less hypocritical to be for peace and yet wish harm to them?
so would you invade an innocent country knowing full well you are going to be killing at least a couple of kids and innocent people just because you were ordered too? it is because of the troops that the "foggies'" orders are being carried out, is it not? do you see dick cheney over there on the front lines with a gun? so basically you want them to kill whomever they are ordered to, and kill them well? but yet it is the troops carrying out the useless, immoral, and illegal war.
was it wrong to be pro-minutemen during the american revolution? they were the real freedom fighters, as are the resistance fighters in iraq. anybody who supports the troops isnt supporting peace or democracy, they are supporting war and imperialism, forced "democracy" onto a country that wasnt ready for it. though that wasnt the initial reason for this war, remember that saddam was planning to attack us and he had hordes of wmd's and he was osama's best friend and helped attack the twin towers? yeah
What else could I do? Run to the seargent and tell him I don't want to play any more? No, and you never will, unfortunately ... Yes, that's the basic idea. What I have problems with is the orders, not the people who carry them out. So what, we should fight to keep them from getting food and supplies? No soldiers, no war. Great idea. You want to write the death notices to the relatives? Unfortunately this is true. I know this war isn't about bringing peace or democracy to the country. It's about what all wars are about, political struggles, oppression, and death. This war is particularly terrible, and needs to be stopped. But throwing rocks at the messenger isn't going to change the news.
1)you could desert or 2)you could just not enlist in the first place. that makes a lot of sense. "well guys, i find murder to be wrong, but since you were told to do so by your boss, ill support y'all." it happened during vietnam, and ironically, most of those soldiers were drafted. the troops should have been supported then, they should be spat on and cursed at and everything else that happened back then now.
I was eligible for draft during Vietnam, but if my number came up I would have went to Canada. I hated that war, and I hate this one. I'm not one to follow orders, if I didn't believe it was neccesary to kill someone, I wouldn't, no matter who told me to. So if I had been drafted, I would have probably spent most of my time in Levinworth. A lot of my friends now are Vietnam vets, and I've heard a lot of stories. Talking about murder while you sit in your comfortable room at home is a little different from being in a jungle scared shitless with only a few rounds of ammo and not knowing exactly who the enemy is or where he is. I respect those men, even though a lot of them have seen more than their share of resentment and hatred. I don't want to see another generation grow up to resent these troops like that.
This is one of the most hypocritical statements I've ever read/heard... you wouldnt do it, you wouldve dodged, why do want these troops to go on killing when you wouldnt? you want someone else to do the pointless job that seems as though you believe has to be done? what a crock of shit. these troops voluntarily joined whereas those were mainly drafted... it doesnt take a genius to figure out what the u.s. army has done throughout history. the u.s. army fights wars and invades nations who's leaders they dont agree with. sure you can bring up various arguments that make liberals and anti-war people of any political ideology sound as if they live in a world where logic doesnt exist, but in the end, the troops volunteered, they are over there voluntarily, killing and raping a nation of people that presented no harm to us or our freedom at the time of the initial invasion.
Did I say I wanted them to go on killing? I don't want them to go on killing, but I don't think they should all just get up and walk out either. These kids, for the most part anyway, joined because they wanted to uphold the freedom and rights we enjoy. I know some who enlisted way before Rumsfeld helped push this hair up Bush's rear, they had no idea they'd be fighting for an unjust cause. They were under the impression the United States was a fair, peaceful democracy, the same impression I have been known to be under from time to time. I also have the highest regard for the kids who enlist today, very few join just so they can go kill someone halfway legally, most of them want to improve themselves in one way or another, and do something I was too chicken to do, defend their country. I regret deeply they have to go on killing and be killed, but alas there is little choice until the powers that be get their act together. Iraq is a long way from home. I'm getting too riled up, I'm going to have to go to bed. I'm not trying to be hypocritical, I did what I could back then to end a war I didn't believe in, and I'm doing the same thing now. I can't help it if some people believe this war is righteous, or want to gamble with their lives to fight it. But I'm sure not going to hold anything against them if they are willing to sacrifice themselves for what they believe. It's the ones who don't have anything to lose from sending them out there that I'm after.
What do you want them to do then? its the freaking military, you'd have to be braindead if you believe that militarys dont fight wars ever. improve themselves by joining a military that is fighting an unjust war... improve themselves how exactly? if all the soldiers simply just put down their guns the powers that be couldnt do anything about it and iraq would be left to fix its own problems -- something that iraqis should've been doing from the beginning.
I seriously don'r believe that all our soldiers would lay down their weapons, especially when people are shooting at them. I'll tell you what would end the this war quickly though. If, when you opened the news tomorrow you read that several thousand of our troops had been killed overnight. The U.S carpet bombed civilian centers in N. Vietnam, killing an estimated 1 million people who had little of nothing to do with the war in S. Vietnam. The bombing went on for at least 2 years. Now, if the first 40 or 50 planes we sent over to bomb the people of N. vietnam had benn shot down, the U.S would've stopped sending them, potially saving many lives, both Vietnamese and U.S., because public outcry against the war wouldn've ended it years earlier than it did. If the "insurgents" launched a mass attack on our bases and killed say 2 or 3 thousand of our troops overnight, that would bring the troops home toot sweet. And by so doing saving many lives, if it takes as long for the American public to demand an end to the war as it did with the Vietnam War. Or will it take 50,000 U.S. dead, like in VietNam? P.S. I believe the only way the war will end is by a massive public outcry, like in VietNam.
that sure would teach our government and our country not to go around thinking that we are the mightiest and most undefeatable power on the planet... dead u.s. troops is a good thing.
Not surprising. That is, after all, the Bush/Cheney official position. Why else would you have a war, but not give the soldiers sent to fight it proper equipment like body armor, armored vehicles, and sufficient ammunition? Because the war is a vehicle for making MONEY, and properly supplying the troops sent to fight it cuts into the profit margins. The planners of this war wanted the oportunity to shovel billions of dollars to their buddies in the defense industry while looting and pillaging the country of Iraq. The "troops" are only the tools that they used to get the job done. They are being treated as expendable. After all, none of THEM sit on the boards of Halliburton or Bechtel, right? Glad to see that you are at least an HONEST corporate tool, PointBreak. Even Dubya won't come right out and ADMIT that he doesn't give a shit about the "troops" beyond using them as a nice background for a photo-op....
