Whose afraid of the big bad muslim?

More North Americans die taking a shit than they do as victims of Islamist terrorism. I am frightened that there are many Islamophobic posts on this, supposedly enlightened forum. George Bush and Ariel Sharon desperately want you to fear innocent Muslim people, so don't do it. Iraq wouldnt have been bombed if the American masses didnt fear them. Lets get one thing very clear and very certain, the WMD's are not in Iraq....they are in Iowa.

 

Sharon has no grounds critisizing other people for war crimes and terrorism. He and his sheep make me embarrassed to be Jewish.

 

Thank you, and I could not agree more. What is scary however is that Sharon is a moderate in comparison to Netinyahu. An interesting side-note to Sharon-haters alike. One of the reasons he hates arabs:

In the Suez war against Egypt, he had one of his testicles blown off. Horrible thing, but it happened to a horrible man, so alls well that ends well.

 

Yep, its all a media game.

God bless, peace

 

where has bush ever said anything against islam all I hear from him is that its a peaceful religion that hasnt been understood by people like osama .

and what is it about islam that you like so much the oppression of women, the hatred of homosexuals ,stoning people to death, cutting hands off, the scriptural support of offensive war to spread religion, the persecution of other religions and minoritys .

I notice that none of you air heads are able to defend the religion in detail ,and none of you has been able to disprove what Ive been saying about it on this site for the last five or six years .

but somehow you still cling to the belief that islam is the religion of peace with no evidence to support that belief, and are too narrow minded to see that at its heart it is not a peaceful religion even if there is evidence is given to you and you cant disprove it .


merry christmas

 

I am not a Muslim, so it is not really my place to argue in defence of Islam, as I have only read english-version Qur'an and know extremely little of the faith in comparison to many of my muslim friends. However, what you seem to have trouble with is distinguishing religion from culture. Religiously, Islam says nothing about the opression of women, hell, women were much worse off before Muhammed came in the 7th century. Baby girls would routinly be burried in the sand because some of the bad aspects of Arab culture were that women were a hinderance to the nomadic desert lifestyle. Muhammed personally stopped all infanticide. I go to a predominantly white, non-muslim university, although it does have a significant muslim minority. many of the women of Islam at my school CHOOSE to wear hijab. they live on their own, no parents are thrusting it upon them, and there are other muslim women who do not wear hijab and are still active members in the muslim community, so the ones who wear it do not do so for fear of wrath from the muslim community (very tolerant where I come from, very true to the religion). They wear it because in many ways Hijab is an equalizing factor. Now hear me out, men control most of the world, that is just a fact of the world we live in. and women are judged by men in accordance to their beauty. A blonde bombshell with big brests is more likely to get a job than a fat deformed amputee. When they wear the hijab, they wear it so that they can hide their beauty, or lake thereof, or neutrality, or whatever their appearence may be so that they may be judged on who they are and what they say, not how they look. I have been told this by women who wear hijab. and as for Islam being a hateful religion, look at Judiasm and Christianity, in particular a passage holy to both. Leviticus 20:13. Religiously, the Qur'an is much more tolerant and non-violent than the old testament/torah. you speak of people being stonned to death, but what about the hundreds of thousands of "witches" burned by the peaceful religion of Christianity? I am not a Muslim, so none of the arguements I can give could ever match the ones given by a devout adherant of Islam, but I will argue in defence of Islam because, from my experiance, it is NOT a threat to our world. Nor is any religion for that matter. The true threat to our world is material worship. that combined with Islamophobia has led to such wonderous things as the Iraq war. tell me, Jonny, do you support the invasion of Iraq? would you support the bombing of Iran? is violence the way to stop this "violent religion" you speak of? because thats the impression you leave me with.

 

And I meant no offence to Christians or Jews, the point I was trying to make is that any religion can be misconstrued as being violent. Even Buddhism was misconstrued to support Kamikaze bombings in the second WW.

 

RE: In the Suez war against Egypt, he had one of his testicles blown off. Horrible thing, but it happened to a horrible man, so alls well that ends well.

Yeah, but to those folks if you've sustained an injury to yr bits you're not welcome in the congregation of the LORD. This is serious religious business.

 

my uncle was in eqypt for quite some time a couple of years ago for work and he converted to muslim
its not muslims that are the problem the muslim religion has nothing to do with the killing of innocent people
its the extremists that take the muslim religion and twist it and it makes me sick how north americans now fear or hate muslius just because of a few

 

When I lived in the Philippines, I was warned, repeatedly that "the muslims will get you". I thought it was the Filipino equivilant of the boogyman. I wasn't allowed out after dark, I had a personal driver and a car with tinted windows... because I was/am white, and all white people are rich (or so they think, and we are compared to the 5 kids living in the shack along the polluted crocodile infested river).

My host family was Catholic, and I thought they were just hating people different than them. There was a lot of religious hate between the Muslims and the Catholics in the region, and it went back for about a hundred years. Still thought they were overreacting... why would anyone bother with little old me?

Then my friends Grandmother was kidnapped by MILF (Muslim Independance Liberation Front... not the other MILF) and was held for randsom for several days. The woman was in her 80's. The randsom was paid, and Lola was returned unharmed, if a little shaky.

My Brazilian friend who was living in Cotabato City was removed from the city by his exchange sponsors... we took him in. He lived in Davao City with us for several months until the violence got really crazy, and we left Mindinao all together.

After we left MILF blew up the airport. Then they blew up busy public dock where a year before we had left to go diving from.

I am not afraid of Muslims. I have been to Mosques, I have muslim friends.

I am however very much afraid of radical extremist groups, like MILF. MILF just happens to be a Muslim extremist group, and the only one I've personal encountered.

 

my dad is a sunni muslim born in saudi arabia and i have been to several mosques. islam is a total way of life, not just spiritual matters. it is to live life the way god intends. of course there are extremists (which come with other religions as well) that have misinterpreted the teachings of the qur'an and hadith and have created a false image of what islam is about. you speak of the persecution of other religions and minorities...during the spread of islam large areas did come under muslim political and religous rule through arab conquest but followers of other religions were usally tolerated provided they did not fight against islam and conversion was only gradual in some areas. infact many jews lived in arab states where all they had to do was pay a tax rather than in europe...where they were perscuted. based on what you have said i can tell that you are on the outside looking in. everything you have said sounds like it is based on news clippings

 

I think you should read some books about the discrimination practiced by early muslims,christains and jews were allowed to live in a sort of apartied they were called dhimmi had to pay a special tax .

in three of the four main schools of sunni islam non people of the book were not allowed to live in a islamic state at all so people like hindus or pagans were just killed or made into slaves or they had the option of conversion to islam .

my father worked in saudi for year was arabic speaking you dont see many churches or Synagogues in saudi do you in fact you see no non muslim place of worship or crosses buddhas .
saudi is the heart of islam what happened to all the pagans and jews , where is the islamic tolerance .

mohammed personally killed a whole tribe of jews , he fought 80-90 offensive wars to destroy other tribes and religions while he was alive and then his close followers finished off the job of getting rid of other religions starting in arabia

 

Where is the proof that women were so low valued by Arab society that baby girls were buried in the sand to die.
I believe it says this happened in haddith but I would say that’s a very biased source,
Much like Christians saying that pagans eat little children.
Because the haddith was put together to promote Islam and was written by Muslims.

You have other haddith where Muslims complain about the freedom given to women in a non Muslim tribe, you have Mohammed’s first wife as a very powerful women before he married her .
You have women in neighbouring countries like Iran as generals and admirals who fought Islam …..

Ewok can you show me some Christians who are at present burning witches , people are being stoned today in Islamic countries and having their hands cut off eyes pulled out .

In the Koran Mohammed says that it is a duty to fight jihad, and jihad isn’t some form of mental struggle because the disabled and women are excused, it says you need weapons things like horses and you need to train.

You get special blessings if you die a shahid or martyr and you’re told that even if you don’t like fighting you need to do it as we often don’t like the thing which is good for us it says .

If you look at how the verses were revealed they get progressively more nasty, and you have a process of abrogation, so you have verses like to you your religion to me mine that sound tolerant, but they come from a period where Mohammed didn’t have a great big army and are no longer in force .

And sadly the non tolerant ones are the ones that are in force, the Koran says its straightforward to understand so why do

You have sura like 9.5 which you can read here 009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Or

YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection
Which you can read here

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20750


reading this will give you a understanding of why when a verse was revealed is important and why the call to holy war is in force today

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/face_of_islam.htm

 

Christians in the present who burn people? howabout the stealth bombers over Iraq. The war on Terror is a war on Islam, and Bush is the cheif terrorist. the war wouldnt exist if people like you werent AFRAID of Islam. the hadirh is pro-islam yes, and your sources are equally anti-islam. your quranic quotes are misinterperreted. you want violence in a holy book, read Psalm 137. it glorifies the killing of babies. but dont take my word for it...


Are you pro-bush or pro-sharon? hey, Islam is the new communism, in that I mean 50 years ago people feard the commies as much as we are supposed to fear the "evil doers" of islam. that led to the war in vietnam lets not forget. theres a good example of christians burning people in modern times. oh, that lovely smell of napalm in the morning. before you condemn the muslims of heinous crimes, consider for a second what your own people did. Your British, I take it, as am I by lineage. Our people are responcible for the indigenous holocaust of the americas, the deaths of millions of irishmen, the supression of catholicism after henry VIII and protestantism before him, and now we rest upon this fat society because of the poor peoples of the 3rd world, including the islamic world. our attrocities do not occur in the first world, as rich people complain, but rather in the 3rd world. it is easier to commit an attrocity in a poor country than a rich one, thats why there is much more islamic oppression than christian in the world today. oh, but lets not forget jewish opression, their poor heathens are in their backyard, so we have massacres like the one at Jenin. tell me, what makes the Christian or the Jew who kills less worthy of fear than the muslim who does the same? more Palestinians have died than Israeli's since the fat man strolled into Al Aqsa, why do you ignore them? we are in the midst of a modern day crusade, and it is being blanketted in the ambiguous and empty word "freedom"

 

ewok you asked me earlier if I supported the war in iraq I went to everyone of the main marches against the war in iraq in london.
although as I gave it more thought I think the war could have been a good thing if it had just got rid of saddam without the occupation .

I dont hate all the muslims in the world, my qouranic verses are not misinterperreted thats the problem , at one time years ago I used to think that islam was this peaceful misunderstood religion but then I took the time to study it .

the problem we have is because of racism we look at things like the crusades and we condemn the christians involved and we dont see the background which was hundreds of years of jihad that started with mohammed and his teachings and are being continued today .

you talk about the genocide of the american indians have you ever heard of the genocide commited against hindus in india by muslims ,that was possibly the greatest act of genocide in history but very few people have heard of it .

islam has a incredible bloody history but its ignored or whitewashed .
when you think of slavery you think europeans but arabs and muslims were in it longer and are still in it and they did it on a bigger scale .
but the thing is because this history is generally not known there isnt any sorrow about it,

Im not sure what fat man your on about in the al aqsa mosque

if you look at the situation in isreal the numbers killed are small compared to say sudan in the recent genocide that went on there, you have as bad repression in other countrys .
but you wont get the press coverage because of racism .

I think there is wrong on both sides

 

my sources are original sources the koran and sahih haddith and the most famous tafsir thats a commentary on the koran none of these is a anti-islam source

I have given one article that explains abrogation and the timing of different verses because it saves time thats from a ex-muslim website ran by a iranian ex-muslim friend of mine .

also Im a atheist so I would agree with anyone who says that the old testament is very nasty too

 

mohammeds last deathbed words "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Hadith vol. 5:716 that doesnt sound to tolerant does it
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57
A Muslim must not be killed if he murders a non-Muslim: Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50

a good book on the status of dhimmi and dhimmitude is

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0838636888/qid=1135376096/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_10_1/026-0801298-9106059

http://www.dhimmi.org/

http://www.dhimmi.com/dhimmi_overview.htm

 

jonny - i feel sorry for you ..the hate you livin with will never allow you to look past it

peace to all

 

Ahhhhh....Atheism, lovely thing, lets talk atheist genocides like that of Tibet. Whatabout all the religious people who died for their faiths, whatever they may be, in the GULAGs. Atheism is a violent religion. yes, it is a religion, it is a religion that preaches there is nothing. people believe in no god religiously, that is atheism. Yes, I have heard of the Moghul genocides, but that wasnt due to the fact that they were muslim, no, islam was a pretext for genocide. the reality is that it was commited by genocidal people. the word moghul comes from Mongol. the Mongols under genghis khan and his sucessors killed something like 80 million back when they had to use spears and arrows to do so. They killed the Islamic Caliph, along with the entire populace of Baghdad. that was the mongols for you. interestingly enough, modern day mongolians are among the most peaceful people in the world, as well as one of the few nations who recognize Palestine as a nation, and thus, they are brave for such a recognition. But hey, the Swedish people were once vikings, so cultures do change. cultures also influence religion. Most muslim cultures are very wounded in the modern era, due to colonialism and exploitation. 1000 years ago, they were prosperous, and accordingly they were the most tolerant people in the world, and therefore it isnt religion that determines the brutality of a people, its the state that their in. you have everything robbed from you in a short period of time, and we'll see how violent and angry you get. The story is the same the third world over, what sets the Islamic world apart is what the islamic world rests upon.
A black ocean lies beneath muslim sands, and a red ocean lies above muslim lands.
they coincide

 

stoney if you wish to dispute that islam and the koran and haddith, doesnt have the concept of jihad or religious war and is extreamly anti non muslim please do so with reference to scripture.

and if I was full of hate towards muslims, surely I wouldnt have bothered going up to london to peace marches lots of times which there is a photographic record that I did on this site

ewok
a red ocean often caused by one branch of islam killing another branch of islam, more muslims are being killed and persecuted by other muslims than are being killed by non muslims .

as for atheism having a ideology of genocide please show me where I am commanded to not be a friend to christian and jew as it says in the koran in sura 5.51.

where I am commanded to fight some form of jihad or holy war for atheism.
as far as I know atheism has no prophet who spent his life raping women, and torturing people, making people into slaves and then selling them who is considered the perfect example .

so anything bad done by atheists is up to the individual if I wish to rape or make people slaves thats just me Im not following any commandment, its just me being a nasty person.

again i would ask you look at the detail of how tolerant islamic countrys were ,much like president bush et all are lieing to you and telling you that the present day islamic terrorism has nothing to do with islam that delightful religion of peace .

so to you have a myth of islamic tolerance or of a islamic golden age which is promoted by western media but has little basis in fact ,I cant go into this much now as going off for christmas, but not looking at opposing views is just narrow minded .

I am quite happy to look at any site or writing that shows that I am wrong so far I havnt been shown that I am

merry christmas to you all