of course we are and until we start getting our heads out of our arses it will continue (and probably after that too the bastards!!!)
do you think its likely that we will be able to stop companys trying to make a profit throughout the world . do you think it would be a good idea if we justified bombing iraq with the fact that lots of arabs or muslims own companys in europe and america , many of them make a profit why dont you see the religious aspect to islamic terrorism the seeking 70 virgins by blowing yourself up ect ect , the call to holy war that is still in force in islamic scripture , the example of mohammed . what I would advise you to do is talk to the sort of people who would do suicide bombing and ask them, speak to their parents , Ive done this on many occasions ...they are promised a reward if they die as martyres they are taught its a obligation to fight non muslims ....that they wont get into heaven if they dont . isreal, oil, all the other stuff that might rile them isnt the main cause its the religion and scripture .
sorry, i'm not willing to get into an argument, but playing the religion and scripture card is just pure ignorance. It does not take into account the actions of a few fanatical or powerful individuals, it does not take into account the west's continual meddling and abuse nor does it take into account that the middle east is comprised of desperate third world countries threatened by war, poverty and corrupt political systems. I cannot actually fathom any motive to blame religion except for that of fear, hate and ignorance. I say this considering that both scientific theories (ie. evolution and the nazis) and other religions (ie. christianity - crimes throughout history, the most recent, the slaying of muslims by serbian orthodox christians in the mid 90s) have served as the basic grounds for the hate crimes of individuals and/or majorities of people. Pinpointing a religion which drives many millions of people worldwide to live humble, kind and spiritually fulfilled lives worldwide is pure simplification of a complicated issue. It defers responsibility away from a much greater line of reasoning. The choice of individuals. Not the religion itself, but how they CHOOSE to follow it
well dear lying I think you talk from ignorance, and I suppose you are so narrow minded that you wont take the time to look to see whether you are wrong . as I say talk to the sort of people who would kill for islam or talk to ex-muslims . most people in the world do not really follow their religion be it christan or muslim , if christians followed jesus they would be so non violent they would be willing to be cruicified rather than fight , if they followed mohammed they would be involved in jihad or paying for jihad . most islamic majority countrys would be ruled by sheria , countrys like turkey ect ect wouldnt exist as they do now . the problem is that some people do apply what is in the religion. if you are talking about people following powerful individuals why not include mohammed the man who came up with the religion in the first place. mothers of suicide bombers notice how they believe their children will get beautiful virgins in heaven ? how they will be personally be blessed for having a martyre as a child ? how they feel its a religous obligation to fight and die in jihad ? where did they get the strange idea that their sons will get all these virgins at death as a matyre its a bit strange isnt it .where did they get the idea that it was a obligation to fight and why do they allways have children photographed with the koran and guns and bombs
getting all these virgins comes directly from islamic scripture its a great reward , I think you dont understand the thinking . lets imagine you believe in all this stuff wouldnt it be a incentive to kill yourself , if you believe that in so doing you will get all these sexy women. its a bit like during the crusades christians were told you would have sins forgiven if you fought , so it isnt the fact that we make money out of the middle east there is this insentive . so even if you get out of the middle east there will be another reason found and another and another because jihad brings blessings
NEW YORK - The American FBI have begun measuring radiation around hundreds of mosques. The tests that have been carried out in New York, Washington, Chicago, Detroit, Las Vegas, and Seattle are done to discover Al Qa'ida nuclear weapons. Washington is very worried about the growing amount of messages that Osama bin Laden wants to attack the US with either chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons. The FBI had done this without permission from a judge, but claim it is lawful because they were carried out on public highways. Opponents claim it is an invasion of their privacy.
"sorry, i'm not willing to get into an argument, but playing the religion and scripture card is just pure ignorance. It does not take into account the actions of a few fanatical or powerful individuals, it does not take into account the west's continual meddling and abuse nor does it take into account that the middle east is comprised of desperate third world countries threatened by war, poverty and corrupt political systems." see what I cant understand is how you want to look for any reason but ignore the most clear reason. suicide bomber’s mother filmed her parting ceremony with her 17-year-old son before he went off to kill five Israeli teenagers, ordering him not to return to her “except as a Shahid.” After her son’s death, this woman told a PA television audience, “I give my son to jihad for Allah. This is a religious obligation for us.” In October 2003, the brother of female suicide bomber Hanadi Jaradat grinned as he told reporters, “We are receiving congratulations from people. Why should we cry [over her death]? It is like her wedding day, the happiest day for her.” Palestinian children have learned to see dying for the deity as their goal in life. In a chilling talk show interview on PA TV, two 11-year-old girls explain cheerfully and eloquently what they and their young friends desire: Walla: "Shahada is very, very beautiful. Everyone aspires to shahada. What could be better than going to paradise?" Host: "What is better, peace and full rights for the Palestinian people or shahada?" Walla: "Shahada". Yussra: "Of course shahada is sweet. We don't want this world, we want the Afterlife. We benefit not from this life but from the Afterlife... Every Palestinian child aged, say 12, says "Oh Lord, I would like to become a shahid." Public opinion polls indicate that Yussra and Walla represent an overwhelming majority of Palestinian children who embrace this belief. According to three different polls, 70 to 80 percent of Palestinian children aspire to shahada. Ive seen kids in london with headbands supporting suicide bombing at marches , in fact the first time was at the biggest peace anti iraq war march . the rewards for being a shahid is in sahih haddith and the koran.
Sorry buddy - still doesn't account for the fact that there are millions of other muslims who actually have a clue.
QUOTED BY JONNY 2 MAD (32k connection wouldn't let me quote with the bif pictures) well dear lying I think you talk from ignorance, and I suppose you are so narrow minded that you wont take the time to look to see whether you are wrong .(END QUOTE) Thank you, you are a sweetheart. (START QUOTE) as I say talk to the sort of people who would kill for islam or talk to ex-muslims . most people in the world do not really follow their religion be it christan or muslim , if christians followed jesus they would be so non violent they would be willing to be cruicified rather than fight , if they followed mohammed they would be involved in jihad or paying for jihad . most islamic majority countrys would be ruled by sheria , countrys like turkey ect ect wouldnt exist as they do now . the problem is that some people do apply what is in the religion. if you are talking about people following powerful individuals why not include mohammed the man who came up with the religion in the first place. mothers of suicide bombers notice how they believe their children will get beautiful virgins in heaven ? how they will be personally be blessed for having a martyre as a child ? how they feel its a religous obligation to fight and die in jihad ? where did they get the strange idea that their sons will get all these virgins at death as a matyre its a bit strange isnt it .where did they get the idea that it was a obligation to fight and why do they allways have children photographed with the koran and guns and bombs (END QUOTE) Sorry dude, the people are fucking nuts. They do not take their religion seriously, they just take bits of it and use it for their own purpose. Honestly, i don't think i have the balls to convince you that islam is not the base cause of terrorism. This isn't a compliment, its more like saying i can't knock down the brick wall im talking to. And i really have better things to do. Bye!
its funny that for the last 5-6 years on this site Ive run into loads of people like you and none of them have been able to back up what they say , and prove that islam is this peaceful misunderstood religion ....but still they are so narrow minded to think that they are right with zero evidence that they are
Ok, true, I have no theoretical evidence to back up my claims. But my evidence is the many peace loving, but very devout muslims I have known over my lifetime. And you still have not account for that.
That's because you fundamentally misunderstand and misrepresent the nature of religion. Religion is no different to a political party - many different people with many shades of opinion will sign up to the same party and wear the same badge. They won't, however, believe the same thing. What one person takes away from religious writings will be entirely different from the understanding reached by another person - hence, for example, the way in which many christians are so divided over homosexuality. Religion merely reflects our prejudices and hatreds rather than creating them. Thus, to say that Islam is or isn't evil is nonsensical. What's evil is how the religion is interpreted and practiced.
is the bnp evil or was the nazi party evil this is a discussion I had with showmet last year . was it possible to have been a nazi and been a nice person that like jews, and even if there were this small number of nice nazis that liked jews and that understood mein kampf to be full of love for jews what difference would it have made . we have had posts against the bnp if its all down to individual interpretation why should we have such posts isnt this discounting the number of peaceful nazis that by your reasoning should exist .
The difference with religion would be that there's no 'manifesto' as such. Religions are open to much wider interpretation than political parties. The BNP is an organisation with a clear and defined set of goals to which everyone who joins subscribes. Religions are open to personal interpretation, and people who subscribe to religions are free to choose from any number of different philosophies. For example, as a christian, you could choose to believe that the bible is the inspired word of god and to be taken literally. Or you could believe that it's the word of men, and must be interpreted accordingly. Or you could believe that homosexuality is a sin because it says so in Leviticus, or you could choose to believe that the old testament is no longer applicable since the new covenant. It's a matter of personal choice. So christianity is no more or less evil than the intentions of those who subscribe to it - and the same goes for Islam.
I have to agree with you jonny2mad.. I read over this thread and i agree with you 99%. People are highlighting what WE have done to create this reality.. but i do believe it is just as you mention 'just another reason'. I listened to the 7/7 bomber and he rambled on about 'our foreign policy' and 'killing his muslim brothers' what a load of horse manure.. he barely knew what it was about the 'foreign policy' and he did not even attempt to highlight much within [anyway].. just a generic catch all ..ever trumpeted by OBL. I do believe it is the turn of the muslim faith to 'rid the world of infidels' this IS in the Koran .. I believe it has been re-interpreted into a more benign message. but i do believe the initial intent was that of mass eradication or dominance. I do believe their is a 'manifesto' within the bible and the koran .. thats the whole point... However 'liberal' we in the centurys since it was written have attempted to make it.. I do believe for e.g it does say quite clearly homosexuality is a sin... just because it is not acceptable in OUR modern society .. the places it has not been watered down [to suit our sensibilities].. it is not interpreted any other way. Many things are not vague or open to interpretation.. even if we wish to spend our time trying to manipulate into a less 'liberal' way. We just choose to call people that interpret it in its true sense barbaric .. I have spoken to 'peaceful' muslims and they would not dream of actually carrying out such deeds.. they interprete the bible in the same manor as the suicide bomber.. but choose not to carry anything out.. because it says in the koran this is not a requirement other means are acceptable. They think of everything don't they ? .
Not so simple. Leviticus is quite clear on the point of stoning people to death, but christ is also quite clear that he who is without sin should cast the first stone. The issue of interpretation is rather which bits of the bible you choose to follow and why.
