Cool news report on Mormons.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/18/sunday/main1134728.shtml

I heard someone say the measure of if a religion is good or not is to imagine if the whole population of the country practiced it -- if life would be better then it is good. I think Mormons fit that category.

 

yes, it is possible since 1978 for the mormons to become a world religion

"In time, the story goes, a general named Mormon buried a record of these events written on golden plates. They remained hidden until an angel appeared to 14-year old Joseph Smith and directed him to the plates."

whatever happened to those gold plates?

 

Molly, I believe the angel took them back when he was finiished copying them.

As far as if it'd be better if everyone practiced this religion, well, I'm not sure it would be. Of course Mormonism, like every religion, has it's good points, but there is also a darker side. The absolute authority of the elders over the rest of the believers is troubling. The fundamentalist Mormons are even worse, because they still have polygamy. And though it'd be ok if the wives consented, often enough there are young girls forced into marrying a much older man who already has wives, because the leader of that sect (they're not considered Mormons by the mainline Mormons) has absolute control over his people. So you have a lot of sexual abuse going on there.

And for all Mormons, you have the idea that the world will end soon, so environmentalism is not a concern (these people are like the ultimate capitalists, who, by the way, don't much care for the Constitution). That's dangerous to the rest of us who are pretty sure that our children and grandchildren will be inheriting this earth. Also, I'm not sure if it's only the fundamentalists who believe this or all of them, but there is a belief in direct revelation from God. Kind of a great justification for any wrong you commit; just say it was a command from God. This has been seen in court, and the sad thing is, often it seems like the believers actually believe it. I read a book "under the banner of heaven" about the double murder of a mother and her infant, and the killers (brothers, and brothers-in-law to the slain woman) believed it was revealed to them that they must kill this evil woman and wipe her seed from the earth. They were supposed to kill their brother too but he wasn't home. The book went on to cite all kind of other such stories.

Sounds like I'm badmouthing the religion, and I'm sorry. I knew a Mormon in high school and he was a good guy. And I realize that most of the problems are worse in the fringe, fundamentalist communities (typical of any religion). But I don't think it'd be better if the whole country was Mormon, unless all those negetive were somehow purged from the religion. And you still have to deal with that central authority which I for one greatly dislike.

 

yes, but the tablets were part of the archaelogical record so what gives the angel the right to take them?

 

TrippinBTM, I remember one LDS leader who said that if he knew the end of the world was tomorrow he would still plant a tree in his orchard. That's the general LDS belief on wise stewardship of the earth. Besides, with the strong emphasis on family Mormons generally want a better place to leave their children and grandchildren.



Conformity? I know Mormons who are yuppie-ish, rednecks, hippies, you name it. Some of the most stubborn individualists you will ever meet are Mormons.



Like Jews in the 17th. century who did not say polygamy was wrong but stopped practicing it due to persecution, the Mormons have done the same. So the main church does not have polygamy -- some breakoffs do however, and some are questionable and some are just like everydday folk (just with more than one wife in the household).



Nowhere in the Bible is polygamy condemned.

 

it definatly isnt healthy for a community to all be mormons...i should know, having grown up in a small utah community where at least 95%-98% of my high school was mormon.

it was a very fake community, everyone thought they had to project an appearance of perfection to their neighbors, and expected others to do the same. no body was real with anyone, not even family. and dont even get me started on the poor indoctrinated children who grew up in that enviornment, later to be disowned for thinking for themselves.

i could go on and on but wont.

mormons are a cult with extreme beliefs and their communities have a very dark underbelly.

edit to add: also, if god were to give a man golden plates with his truth inscribed on them...you'd think he wouldnt pick a peadophile. joseph smith was run out of his home town for seducing and fucking small children. lucky for him the angry mob couldnt bring themselfs to castrate him as was their original plan.

 

joseph smith was into the occult hermetic freemasonry kabbalah

http://www.gnosis.org/ahp.htm

 

Oh yes, and Joseph Smith was also communicating with space aliens -- heard that one two. Oh, and what about the one that he was attempting to infuse Islam into the American psychie by creating a religion that would foster discussions that would make Islam get a philosophical foothold on America. Then there's the one about Mormons having constructed an underground tunnel from Europe to the USA so they could ship women from Europe to polygamist Utah. Heard them all -- although Archemetis's comment about child molestation is a totally new one to me (hey maybe he was also into canibalism????).



I have lived in small towns where there are lots of Mormons and in towns with hardly any. I can say that small towns tend to have a psychology about them that is independent of whatever religion the people have.

To throw a term like cult around to discredit a people or a religion is like when the government throws out a term like "terrorist" today -- nobody wants to understand or learn about terrorists andy more than cults. However, I can assure you Mormons are not a cult (and we only sacrifice virgins on Valentines day -- once convinced a naive Swedish woman that that's what we really did and then, after having fun with her reactions, told her otherwise).

 

Mormonism is still my favourite made-up religion.
Totally wacky and hilarious to look at.
Not as good a job as Muhammeds version of the Bible but probably a lot more entertaining as far as a good ole entertaining read.
Golden Plates, Salamanders and magic Hats - Awesome!

 

Plus, you gotta wear that weird underwear...

 

what is mormon underwear like?

 

rainbow gatherer-
march 25 1832....Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (while living in Hirum) are attacked and tarred; the mob included Simonds Ryder, McClentic, Streeter, and Felatiah Allen.
The mobbers are chased off by John Poorman and Father (John) Johnson, who mistake each other for mobbers and struggle, with Poorman striking Johnson. [Church History Vol I]
Luke Johnson recalls it as the fall of 1831 and says a mob of 40 or 50 came to their house (Johnson's) and Carnot Mason dragged Smith from his bed, streached him on a plank, and after abusing him, took him to Dr. Dennison's for an operation, Dennison refused. [Luke Johnson autobiography] Eli Johnson demanded that Smith be castrated for being too intimate with his sister, Nancy Marinda Johnson, who was 15 at the time.


there is a book called "Mormon Polygamy, A History"....that goes into detail about smiths history. (and it was written and published by mormons so you cant claim bias)

here is a list of a few of smiths wifes and their ages...
Helen Mar Kimball 14
Nancy M. Winchester 14
Flora Ann Woodworth 16
Fanny Alger 16
Sarah Ann Whitney 17
Lucy Walker 17
the average marrying age of that time period for a women was early to mid 20's. the man also took many wifes from other men in his church claiming that god commanded him to do so.

and i stand by my comment of the mormon church being a cult (it is by every definition of the word) ...iv seen the inner workings of their inner circles, and its all bullshit.

im not saying that mormons are all bad people...iv met the good ones as well as the bad ones, but i will say their beliefs are strange and their prophet was a paedophile.

 

I guess he just liked Gold that much.

 

Sorry, but I will bet that many people here could look at their family tree and find many instances of women getting married at 14 or 15. In fact, in many European nations the age of sexual consent is 14 and in many US states it is legal to marry at 14 (some at 12).


Ever see the movie "Sleeping Beauty" made in 1960? The gal was to be married to a prince at 16. Notice even in those days that did not cause any protests since many women in the 40s and 50s here in the USA got married at 18 or 19.

Polygamy could take the form of actual marriage or symbolic marriage. It merely means you are sealed for eternity. Men could also get sealed to other men (no, not a sexual thing) as well. You can disagree with polygamy if you wish (Martin Luther stated that nothing in the Bible was ever said against polygamy) but ages were not the issue in those days. I'll bet even this day a 14 year old is getting married somewhere in the USA.

And Archemetis, I went to the site you got your information from -- wouldn't you think it a tad bit biased?

 

sure, but the information is accurrate.

to be honest the history of that church is not what turns me off, its the bizzare rituals performed, and the bizzare beliefs believed, that make me wonder why people buy into it.

*question* do you know what goes on in their temples? the rituals they aren't allowed to talk about?


and i dont care what you say...i still think 14 is far too young for a girl to be wed, or sexually active, especially to a man so much older than her.

 

i think ill stop now, reading your posts leaves me with teh assumption that you are mormon, and i highly doubt there is anything i could say that would get you to question what you've been told.