The Rat "I am willing to debate you" thread.

Ha ha,
Bah, too much reading to catch up on...
I haven't seen Rat on any of the boards lately, then again I'm barely here anymore.

But on a random debate note,
how about Larry Silverstein, owner of the World Trade Center complex, admitting that Building 7 was "pulled" on 9/11, meaning a controlled demolition. With all the chaos that happened that day, I wonder how they could have prepared a 47 story building for collapse in a few hours...unless it was already ready.

We're still talking about 9/11 right?

 

thats an easy question to ask. if there were an answer, it would be an easy question to answer.

i feel as though education, in efforts to keep an individual aware, so that they can keep them selves first, safer from abuse that stems from this system, and second, to keep thier individuality and spirituality on the right path, despite the traps and trickery that arises from this system.

i highly doubt that there is a way or a reason to stop what goes on, and to try probably only feeds into this system. a smarter stategy is an individual approach to not let it affect you as much as it should.

 

Very true, pal.

Just keep living as you choose, and eventually, your life and the system will clash.

 

yup, and thats when you gotta dig down deep, and find what it takes to ignore it and move on. i htink the only thing that can really change it is quite a few well timed meteore strikes, and the spiritual diety of your choice comin down and kickin some butt. but politics and religion dont mix right?

 

K and Stranger

Rat believes that the US will possibly be taken over by a brutal authoritarian regime run by the rich elite’s that will be worse than the Nazis.

Your answer to the question of what people should do to stop that happening is to effectively do nothing?

Is this really your suggestion to everyone, like Rat who believes in the conspiracy, do nothing?

You recommend that people should “not let it affect you as much as it should”. So in just what ways do you suggest people should NOT let a brutal authoritarian regime worse than the Nazis affect them?

Is this where the study of conspiracy theory leads to, apathy and appeasement? The acceptance that the rich and powerful cannot be countered and should just be left to take over?

**

Again it makes me wonder just what side people like Rat are on, do they want to counter the ruling elite or aid it? Do they want to reform the system or just contribute to its corruption?

 

I would guess that once enough people knew about the New World Order, they would likely protest in front of places like the White House and demand some sort of televised debate on certain issues, thus exposing the culprits to all else around the world, even though these debates or accusations would have to be on their controlled media.

The power of the government would probably dissolve, and many new governments would try to rise, probably having some sort of vote (which I would be against) and the process would likely start over.

That's why I say we move past not just corrupt governments, but formal government as well. But that's just my personal philosophy.

 

So K are you saying that you think there would be a revolution?

Are you saying that you are against a democratic system of voting?

What type of government are you thinking of, some type of undemocratic Anarchy?

 

I have been debating pressed rat in another thread "Conservative Bullshit"

I believe rat's threads are interesting and as far as his theories go I can't prove to what extent they are true, but his biggest problem is that he basically labels any left winger or person that aligns themself with any particular system of thinking or living, (ie Anarchism, liberalism) as someone that has been fooled into doing the bidding of these secret organisations, which could be fair, the main problem being that as far as I know, Rat has not met any of us nor does he know to what extent these clandistine organisations are directly influencing our thinking. And all of it is because there are people on here, who probably are part of 99.9% of humanity in history and prehistory, who like to align themselves with particular belief systems. In all of this, he fails to consider that our measly human brains are able to comprehend any level of thinking outside of these labels, and calls them "rigid". He then goes to say that he refuses to label himself, even though he sticks to highly rigid beliefs, often without ever validating the opinions of people who might have differing opinions to him, and even though he wont admit it we are all sitting here knowing that he thinks he is so terribly superior in the fact that he has not given in to the temptation to label himself, whilst his beliefs remain unchanging and almost label like in nature.

You could almost say that pressed rat has been duped into doing the bidding of pressed rat, because he has labelled himself as pressed rat and until he frees himself from this label, he wont be able to think freely.

Now the point i'm trying to make is that a lot of people in this thread have said that it is unreasonable of us to "slander him" or give him grief for thinking differently. Someone even said he is not surprised that Rat has failed to debate us in a resonable manner because "you can't teach physics to kindergarteners". You fail to see how pressed rat labels us, treats us like idiots, completely misses the main points of our arguments and tells us we've been fooled yet he knows nothing about us.

Any person with that level of arrogance and aggression should be held accountable, and i don't think it is unreasonable to expect pressed rat to answer our questions about his fuzzy conspiracy theories, which many of us are actually very interested to know about but are hesitant to believe because of all the missing information.

Truth is, I came into this thread to learn more about pressed rat's theories but found he has explained nothing further than the evidence of the nature of the theories themselves but so far has not ever spoken of his ACTUAL position on the subject and how he actually wants to deal with it. And it really fucking sucks, because I actually want to know what grounds pressed rat has to tell us how insuperior we are in our thinking. In response to this Rat gives the argument that he is just "an ordinary person with an opinion". What kind of ordinary person says things like "You have all been fooled", i mean, thats the kind of speech you expect from a cult leader.

enough ranting, I'm not nearly as learned or developed in my thinking (yet) as rat or balbus. but even I have enough intelligence to know that the rat is a self appointed preacher and intellectual superior that completely lacks any sense of responsibility for his own thinking.

 

what your assuming is that this authoritarian system is coming in the future, what your not seeing is that its here right now. its actually been here for quite some time. the thing about america is that we succesfully staved it off and lived without it for about 13 years. since then, sucseful moves have been made at erasing all of those rights which we bestowed upon our selves.
why should anyone fight it, that will lead to a miserable life. and by saying dont let it affect you, im not saying not to let it bother you, or dont worry about it, im saying dont let it affect you. dont let it beat you up, or dehumanize you. dont let it rape you. its a psychological system of controls, backed up by very real illusions, and very real big guns. your not going to get a bigger gun to counter it, your not going to create a bigger illusion to counter it, you have to create your own psycological controls over yourself, to not let it affect you. im not saying to forget about it or not worry about it, im saying dont play into it, and fighting it is definately playing into it.

 

I completely agree that authoritarianism is here now and here to stay unless we do anything about it but I just feel that the only viable solution pressed rat has offered us to tackle the problem of us fighting against each other is to believe exactly the same things as him.

Humans are inevitably going to disagree with each other, it doesn't always have to be attributed to the influences of secret organisations.

 

Lying in a field

Thing is that Rat has labelled himself, he has called himself a libertarian, he only dropped the label and started calling himself an ‘independent’ when he found he could not defend libertarian ideas and discovered they were unpopular to many on the thread. He is also on record as saying that the present Republicans are too left wing in his view.

He now claims to not go along with ‘lassie faire’ economics but refuses to say what his economic views are.

 

So in short, pressed rat is basically a liar?

 

Why does everyone feel the need to debate pressed_rat all the time?

I can understand arguing a point, but to create threads specifially as a challenge.... And more than once this has happened?

Move on.

 

Because Pressed Rat feels the need to debate nearly every person with an opinion, and when he is challenged he normally changes the subject or ducks out of the thread altogether. If someone said you were wrong would you not wan't them to justify their argument?

Well, he hasn't so I guess the best thing is to move on.

 

No, I simply refuse to debate ASSHOLES. I am not going to sit back and endlessly debate people who clearly have an agenda to shoot down everything I say. What these people think about me is meaningless. It's not worth the time and effort to me, nor does it matter what certain people may think. I honestly could not care less.

And as far as backing out when I am challenged, this is pure bullshit. I haven't even been challenged, except over silly issues like "what should we do?", as if these people are totally unable to think for themselves. Why do people need me to tell them what to do? I really think silly tactics like this are used as a diversion for people like Balbus, who simply do not have the facts.

Notice Balbus has never debated me over actual issues, rather goes off tangent over silly, mundane bullshit in an attempt to not have to debate the real issues at hand. Instead he seeks to label me and back me into a corner. Why would I want to waste my time on somebody like this?

It's clear that I anger Balbus, and it is clear that Balbus is angered over some of the issues I bring up, which he seems intent on shooting down without ever bringing forth any real facts to counter what I say. It always boils down to Balbus dictating to people "who I am" and "what I believe," while asking the same "what do you want us to do" question over and over again. I really think the man is mentally disturbed.

 

You make me want to hit my head over and over until it breaks and my blood and brains fall out with frustration.

Simple point - A simple point that obviously getting through the impervious filter that is wrapped around your brain

LISTEN:
IF WE ARE ALL SO WRONG IN BELIEVING WHAT WE CHOOOSE TO BELIEVE, THEN WHY AND WHAT ALTERNATIVES CAN YOU OFFER US THAT ARE ANY BETTER?

As far as I see, anarchism, which is the rejection of a centralised government, would be the perfect solution to the problems you suggest. But according to you Anarchists should wake up because we are just another label, manipulated by the new world order to do their bidding

Here is my farmer analogy from another thread: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141415&page=2&pp=10

I know you're smarter than me, and you know this, but so was hitler

Thats all i have to say

oh, and Vagina

 

Shane

"Why does everyone feel the need to debate pressed_rat all the time?"

Oh that is easy to answer for myself, I enjoy it.

 

The thing is the question ‘what is to be done’ is not silly or bullshit it is the most important question that can be asked in politics.

It goes to the core of political debate, for that reason it is very strange that Rat seems so very reluctant to debate his ideas.

Why is it that Rat claims to be attacking the rich and powerful but all his suggestions to others seem to be of assistance to the rich and powerful, and would in fact make them more rich and powerful.

Why does he continue to evade answering that charge?

I know I’m not the only one that has noticed that although I have made that claim many times Rat has never refuted it, in fact he has not even attempted to refute it, why is that?

**

Rat asks people to make up their own minds yet he calls people that don’t accept his ideas, idiots or morons.

Rat asks people to make up their own minds, but about what? He claims that voting is useless, that joining organisations is worthless, that demonstrating is worthless, that being a socialist or anarchist (or any other political activist) is being a tool of ‘the conspiracy’.

These are all suggestions of a course of action (or inaction) this is no different than a Socialist suggesting people vote for a socialist political party.

Rat says people should choose to follow his lead or not but the Socialist would say the same. What is different?

Well the difference seems to be between the stated aims and the means of bringing it about.

The socialist might claim their aim was a more equitable society where the communal wealth was used for the benefit of the whole community. They believe they can do this by regulation and taxation and in the promotion of public ownership. A side consequence of these actions would be a marked reduction in the influence of the rich.

Rat’s aim is to reduce the power of ‘the conspiracy’, which he claims is led by the rich and powerful. How does he believe this can be done?

He will not say.

Why

I do not know

All I can say is that the things he has suggested so far all help the rich and powerful become richer and more powerful

Why is that?

Well that is one of the things I’m trying to find out.

**

 

I apologise for my continual meddling. But I believe pressed rat simply feels a need to feel superior to others. I don't actually believe rat's idea of not ascribing to labels serves any other purpose but to give rat an excuse to say that he is intellectually above par over the masses. Rat says he is "an ordinary person with an opinion". Ordinary people actually back up their opinions.

I believe that in several years time, rat will have read dozens of books on conspiracy theories, spread his condemnation of minority groups on the internet, but not accomplished anything. All the while the socialists you speak of will probably have found valuable, practical and peaceful ways to defeat the system which pressed rat so hates.

 

Socialists believe in handing all their rights and earnings over to the state. How does that defeat the system - please tell me? Socialists want the state in control of their lives, so how can you defeat the system when you are so dependent on that system for your survival? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The agenda behind the New World Order is actually that of socialism bordering on communism. The globalists want to create a society that has no power or freedoms, and is completely dependent on the state for its survival. This amounts to total control over the herd. That, my friends, is fascism. The modern education system teaches us that communism is at the opposite end of fascism on the political spectrum. This is entirely misleading and is a downright fallacy, because communism is fascism. Fascism is communism. Both communism and fascism amount to the same exact things: the centralization of power and control in the hands of only a few, and the total enslavement of the population. It doesn't take being a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Was there any difference between Hitler and Stalin, other than for that Stalin actually killed more people?

This shouldn't be a surprise to those truly learned in history, as socialism and communism was a creation of the central banks. America is currently a socialist country. Money and power is being centralized and consolidated at the expense of the common man. Money is being taken from the public, not to fund government programs, but to consolidate wealth and control, and to set up the nightmarish police state/control grid that is now all around us.

Both communism and socialism have long been tools used to dupe populations into handing all of their rights and freedoms over to the state in return for what they call "freedom."

Communism has also served as a great boogeyman, and served as justification to start wars (ie: Vietnam) and increase militarization and pork barrel government spending (ie: Cold War). Thus, it comes as no surprise to me that Wall Street funded Trotsky and the Bolsheviks. Indeed the Bolshevik Revolution was the official start of communism, which has been a tool of the Elite ever since 1917. The Leftists refuse to acknowledge this, let alone take the time and effort to do any research into the matter for themselves.

Throughout history the Elite have created enemies, pit them up against each other, and used this as justification to make war in order to centralize power and control. It's called a Hegelian Dialectic. It's when you create and/or manipulate two sides that are in apparent opposition, when they are in fact controlled by the same powerful people and/or groups. The Hegelian Dialectic tells us that thesis vs. antithesis = synthesis. The communism vs. capitalism argument falls into this same category, as both systems are controlled by the same people.

The Global Elite funded both the Nazis and the Communists, both of which are their creation.

The same applies to the false Left/Right paradigm, which also plays into the divide and conquer ideology.