Cooooouncilllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bus Mama's quote in italics:
I have no problem with forums devoted to specific kitchens. In fact alot of them have their own websites anyway


We could have kid village here I guess, kid village belongs to everyone.

Again, meant with Love, Busmama


~~~~~~~~~~~



The whole Gathering belongs to everyone. we think it'd be cool to have a couple of sub-forums for Rainbow. One of the truely beautiful things about Rainbow is that folks can meet all kinds of people but kitchens, camps , ect are usually a collaboration of people who have similar ideas, lifestyles, ect.

HipForums is a bit like a cyber-Gathering anyway...Parenting is Kiddie Village, Introductions could be akin to Parking Lot (ideally at parking lot, folks should be greeted and encouraged to explore the Gathering)

 

So, it now seems clear that our council may not be about the complaint box at all... ..sure it is part of the content of the discussion, but not at all the Root of what we are getting at... the question that have arisen and grabbed these ears has been; How can we Truly encorporate Shanti Sena, not only into our physical lives or at gatherings but Now, Here in the cyber world.. a world where rules have been bent and changed... How can we give an Open space where old and new rainbows alike as well as interested folk following their heart song can discuss, ask and push us All further in Our Evolution...?
Allowing a complaint box seems to be one part of an answer..but if we are to make a sticky for the complaint box, then we HAVE to make a sticky for EVERY other possible division of questions, concerns, persons, and the intentions that those persons/hipforum-members may have... ...just like rainbow it is Everything coming together as One, I can offer no single answer but maybe my words will spark a direction in another heart.
Lovin'light
Adam

 

quite the movie we have going...

if nothing else this council is turnin on a good light for those on the outside lookin in..

 

I have to agree, let's not tempt trouble with AGR. Before you know it we'll have hateful
trolls like Preacha Bill posting on here. He's a big reason for the AGR bad energy. One can only hope he sees the light one day.

 

No.... alot of people like the freedom of speech and not being censored of anything they might feel like speaking of..... derogatory or not. When it comes to the ideology of "Rainbow", NO ONE has the right to censor another human's freedoms..... including speech. Anything else is purely hippycritical.

Moderators in this so called "Rainbow Cyberspace", in this modern world of today, should have a function..... preventing all the damn spam garbage from intruding on our topics of conversations. That is my opinion. Any moderator, no matter how "kind" and "rainbow" they claim to be, take the act upon themselves, to censor another human being. How are they "rainbow"... remind me again! Do as is speak not as I do?

The fact of wanting to discuss a "complaint" box, is a very vaild discussion. If people want to put a complaint in a box for others to read, then they should have an option to do so. If a moderator takes it upon themselves to remove someones post and put it in the "complaint" box without thier consent.... then they are treading upon and disrespecting that persons post. Who is one moderator to judge what belongs in a "complaint" box? Mighty power to be bestowed on an individual! I can see where that can go wrong in many ways.

Shall we have a consensus everytime a moderator feels a thread could be a complaint! Not all complaints are problems and not all problems are comlpaints. Whats next? A "consensus" box to hold consensus on what things we should have a consensus about? I don't know how many people feel about an online consensus... but I laugh at it! Good thing to get a kick out of, during my morning wake and bake, for sure! Sorry to tell you, but words in a consensus on the internet, made between people that can not speak face to face, is senseless. A poll is useless in the process. The poll favors a box eh? Friendly wager says I can change that poll in the opposite direction within an hour, all by myself or with the help from a friend! Where does consensus fit in a situation like that?

ANYONE can join this forum and state to be rainbow. Hell, what if an anti-rainbow group decided to join this "consensus" in a whole, all under the disguise of "rainbow" and fancy cosmic brother bear names and such. Consensus has no place if it is not face to face. Pass a feather. Hold up a hand. A simple yeah or neah will do and not a few keystrokes and the hit of an enter button! A CONSENSUS IS THERE FOR A REASON! And one of those reasns it should be held face to face ..... WE KNOW WHO IS CONSENTING TO WHAT and not some sockpuppet.

If I get up at a National gathering during a circle or consensus and start moderating it and telling people that they should not be saying that there, and make them go to the complaint circle..... what would people do with me? Wait a minute.... the moderator here is in CO where the National will be..... will they be moderating the gathering? Good time to find out what would happen!

Others can call people flamers, trolls, drainbows and decide that "they" are not "rainbow". Oviously they have not grasped the fact that EVERYONE is "rainbow" or at least that is what I tend to hear. Humans are humans. I can be "kind" or I can be an asshole as I have chosen to do oh so many times in the Online "Rainbow" Community. That is my choice. As a wise man used to praise Judge Not! Not very rainbowish to judge others for thier words and then remove them or place them elsewhere! I have been called every name in the book online. Does not bother me one bit! But, then again, I am still searching for what rainbow is, as I have seem to lost what the ideology used to be and cannot seem to find it again in this "rainbow" of today.

A complaint box...... YES.
A moderator that has the power to remove another's post and take it upon themselves to decide what another is expressing..... NO

It should be the original posters choice on whether they want thier post in a complaint box or not!


Az

 

poorphucker, your explaination left for why AGR flamers don't come to this forum is essencially the same as the reason we stated earlier, they don't want to be moderated. Drumminmama rarely removes a post and only moves one if it belongs in a different forum due to subject matter, which is also a rare occurance. People are not censored on HipForums but rather are protected from 'verbal' abuse. we don't appreciate being called a 'cult' because we prefer to post a family...and that is exactly what happened on AGR, along with facing many other slams aimed at us by someone who has never met us. we don't allow people to verbally bash other people in our kitchen at Gatherings, even if the basher is one of our own crew. Maybe we can't 'censor' unkind comments in real life, but we can speak up and let the person know that their words are unkind, and speaking up about unkind comments is much more effective in a face-to-face situation.

As far as concensus goes, it's not like this is vision council or something. our kitchen has concensed to meeting places and the like by telephone & by letter; sometimes face-to-face contact is not possible. If a consensus concerning this forum is addressed at the Gathering rather than on it's 'home turf' many of our fellow posters would be left out, because folks can't always make it to the Gathering. In our opinion, this council is far more respectful & kind than some face-to-face councils.

And as we said before, if you go to Vision Council with a banking issue, you will be asked to take the issue to another council.

Also. the complaint box issue was brought forth by a forum member, not by our moderator. It is not a 'play for power'; there's more than enough of that at Gatherings.

And lastly, no one here has labled any other person 'not a Rainbow'; this is a lable placed by persons leaving complaints. They chose to deny that they are Rainbow.

 

I do understand that they might be essentially the same reasons... but it is a form of censorship none the less, which many feel has no place in "rainbow". Many "rainbow" in general, would choose not to come and participate for that reason alone. That does not mean they are "flamers" or "trolls"

That is not the case in what is being suggested. The task of moving posts has clearly been stated. It still does not justify nor give the right to one person to decide what is fit for another to speak of and where it belongs. There are many forums that have moderators and they do as they see fit. People choose to join those sites. But we are talking about a "rainbow" oriented forum and the "ways of rainbow" should persist.

Protected? Censorship is censorship. Rainbow is not about politics brother bear, so there is no need to go further. As, for being a cult, people are entitled to thier views, and should be able to express them. Who are you, or any moderator, in a "rainbow" forum, that posseses so much power that they can prevent another from having a conversation on whether "rainbow" is a cult or not? Tipper Gore? I belive that Charles Manson would have preferred to have been called a family and not a cult. Having been to a few dozen gatherings, I have personally seen many things that others would consider cultish. Denying it does not mean it does not exist and would be a valid conversation topic at this forum or any "rainbow" forum, for that matter! Onwards.... At AGR there is the tendancy to degrade each other amongst each other. It is a battle ground, which is sad. I try to never participate but read every day. But, none the less, it is real and not censored.... just as "rainbow" does not censor. Funny you should point out AGR, when I can trace back too many threads to mention, here in this forum..... that pertain to bad experiences had at gatheings. Just cruise back the last month alone. Are all these people against "rainbow" for stating thier minds. Facts over fictions, no matter what fictions people want to spread about how "kind" a gathering is. More like once was. Any new person to "rainbow" would be much more turned off of "rainbow" by coming to this forum and reading peoples real experiences, than they could by reading idiots verbally abuse each other non stop at AGR. How do you know you have never met some of the people you speak of not meeting. No one has met me.... or have they. If people judge me... so be it. I will not loose any sleep tonight over what a stranger thinks of me! Or a friend for that matter.

Well you are one kitchen and a small percentage of "rainbow". You might enforce your kitchen they way you want it to be ran, but I would not expect that you run around the gathering telling others how to run thier kitchens! Some people are natural born kitchen nazis ( a pun directed towards the ole Seinfield episode about the Soup Nazi and not the third reich) but most are not. More power to you if you run your kitchen your way! You said it yourself.

DO YOU want to censor people. Kind of sounds like you would if you could! What you just said is no different here. Yes speak up.... instead of censorship. A no brainer there. {{{ SARCASM ON }}}If not, use the man's laws that everyone is so against (and the ole TOS) to get the person and thier IP banned. {{{ SARCASM OFF }}} * WERE THEY PHYSICALLY HURTING YOU! No. I see no difference in a moderaotor that might get another free person bannned for speaking thier mind.... than someone that goes around a gathering informing LEO of what is going on. If that is what they get thier thrill off of... so be it. I guess I will have to point out that I am not referring to any particular moderator in rainbowland... as there are many that do a proper job! Kudos to them.

In the case scenario that you speak of with your kitchen, most of you would know each other now wouldn't you. I do not see whay you keep bringing up your kitchen as points. This has hardly anything to to with your kitchen and has to do with addressing the complaint box and moderations of one. Here we are talking about the world wide web. How do you know that anyone is who they say they are if you do not know them?

This is of course not a gathering (in the physical sense), nor was I saying that this should come up at a physical gathering. Maybe the internet in whole, but that is another matter entirely. I was clearly pointing out that if a person were to show up at a gathering and tell others what was proper to discuss and not.... they would have a bunch of disgruntled "kind" people miffed with them. Why is that different here?

And your point is what? Do you want to break up the gatherings and "rainbow" into councils for everything? Why not go mainstream and try and set up a parlimentary or congressional system. We can have moderators for every department, from waste management, to animal control! Why not give everyone of the departments a shiny new website and magic hat? All moderators, I mean department heads, get brand new mint condition VW split windows and all thier living expenses paid for, including rent.

I never said that it was a "play for power" on the moderators behalf. I could care less who brought forth the idea. It is a valid idea, as I have already said. I simply stated a view on moderators in general when it comes to "rainbow" forums. It was brought up that the moderator would have the decision on what belongs where when it comes to people's posts. That is not proper in my eyes. I clearly stated what my postion was and why I feel that way in my earlier post. You can choose to read or not read what you want. That is up to you.

That is absurd or you are very naive. I will only take one example of where you are wrong in my opinion. The poster before my first post. And it is a nice one compared to half the insults against others in rainbow land.

First off, one can say things with out necessary saying it directly. Insinuations go along way. That post is very negative in its own light trying to sound all quaint. TROLL. There is the mention of a deragatory term towards another. The person they speak of is "rainbow" whether they like it or not. You know the ole saying... belly buttons are like assholes..... everyones got one. Does that mean that everyone with an asshole is an asshole! They would still be "rainbow" now wouldn't they, or our those the standards from the past?I do not know how many times I have read here and elsewhere that "trolls are not rainbow" or "drainbows are not rainbows" or "the people that steal and fight at the gatherings are not rainbow". It happens all the time. What about all the degrading remarks that have been made about "gutterpunks" and "crusties" and how they are not rainbow and the sisters are fat and ugly with beer bellies! Wait, I understand now... it is ok to make posts like that but if one were to start making posts degrading "hippys" or "rainbows" IT WOULD BE UNCALLED FOR HERE! It is not these people that are having dergatory terms thrown at them making them! It is the same "kind" "rainbow" brother or sister that posts all this hiholy shit about the light then and how "rainbow" they are in one thread.... then turn around and degrade another human in another thread or another forum by throwing insults at them and making them feel like shit. It is unrainbow.....but constant from people that claim to be "rainbow". What is the new "rainbow lingo" for double standards? Or is it just hippycrit? No explanations or excuses are really needed eh?

Hippystead.... I am not trying to attack you or anything.... just speaking my thoughts on a thread that has multiple discussions points within it.

Az

* some people just can not understand sarcasm on the computer!

 

You have brought up a perfect example of why a compaint box could be a disadvantage. The above quote sums it up. It could just turn out to where the complaint box just becomes a place to flame others for thier honest to heart feelings and experiences. If one can not even post a bad experience without catching flac from people in the main forum.... will a complaint box make it any better?

What if "rainbow" from all over the world decide to use the complaint box as a way to get the things off of thier chest in a way that was never before available? Would all of rainbow's dirty laundry start coming out even more? What would happen then? Would the complaint box then be removed because it conflicts with what some people fight thier hardest to ignore and deny... reality and the times of change? What if someone like me has 10 years of complaints to get off thier chest? Would I get banned for expressing my mind so much? I can come up with some very vaild complaints.... and keep them coming. It seems the highs of rainbow are getting further and few while the lows are becoming more abundant. At least in what I see. There would never be a lack of a new topic in the complaint box.

Az

 

Multiple points and quotes are cool, but we just don't have the time to do all the brackets and all.

Anyway, maybe the biggest point here should be that HipForums is not a Rainbow website. The Rainbow Family has been allowed to have a forum on this site at the request of one or more Rainbows. Our very gracious host, Skip has given us this forum to converse and exchange ideas; and he has allowed DrumminMama to be the moderator of this forum, although it is possible that other moderators or Skip himself can also moderate posts.

Moderation is not going to change on this forum, so it is unproductive to discuss any further.

As far as references to our kitchen, since the consensus process at Gatherings was discussed, it seemed appropriate to provide other examples of decision making at Gatherings along with how certain situations are handled by our kitchen. No, our kitchen isn't run quite the same as other kitchens, but isn't part of the magic of Rainbow, that so many people of differing viewpoints can hang out & cooperate? Kitchens and camps are formed by folks who have similarities. It isn't division, it's different tribes Gathering. (& our kitchen is concidered one of the most easy going kitchens around, no soup nazi movies, you won't find our crew hiding in the back of the kitchen munching on the best kick-downs, we share everything with everyone, including a tobacco can that is open to all)


To WayfaringPoet-we are sorry that you were made to feel like a bad Rainbow. we hippiesteaders will try make sure that we help to find solutions to some of the problems Rainbow Gatherings have been experiencing.


And as this complaint box senerio has turned into the endless circle seen at so many other Rainbow councils; our final opinion in the matter is "Whatever". {JuJu & Cinnamon leave the circle}

 

HOLY MOTHER EARTH,, WHAT HAVE I DONE??


ive created a monster..:&

IM GOIN TO THE DRUM CIRCLE!!

Luv~N~Lite

 

no box. lovin you all. "be the light you wish to see in the world" (buddha) chime

 

Been busy studying censorship and banned baooks for a paper. Check out the American Library Association's website for some great articles on censorship and its impact on the society.


http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Section=oif

 

YEAH BAby!@! Thats what I'm talking about.....

*****YEOWCH****** How does that feel.
Somebody should have told me to be careful what I conjure

HA HA Don't hide at the drum circle, thats where they are
waiting for you.....
HA HA

*Boomdog

 

It is quite undersandable that folks can't spare an extra 3 seconds to type in quote signs. The world is in such a rush now a days. But, internet etiquette is not what is the discussion.

And your point? A very active "rainbow" forum following on a web forum "is not rainbow". Thanks for pointing that out. I was under different impressions thar maybe the things discussed in this particular thread on this particular forum..... has to do with "rainbow". So, remind me why this conversation is even occuring, if it has nothing to do with "rainbow" or is not ""rainbow". Kudos to Skip for "allowing" "rainbow" to utilize this forum for discussion! But, I will have to heed your advice on the matter... as you would know much better that "this is not a Rainbow forum", and keep that in mind from now on.

Are you speaking for hipforums, the moderation team, or just yourself? You should maybe make that clear while on the subject! Unproductive? And why is that....because one conversation out of many has gone in a direction other than your liking? I am just trying to understand better.... not criticize.

Examples of a consensus of a gathering of people (we are talking of rainbow remember) AT A GATHERING.... really do not have much to do with how a consensus on the web works. In a consensus at a gathering, people can look at, and know who they are with. That is not the case here and the only terms that come to mind are null and void. If you are trying to explain how kitchens and consensus works for my reading enjoyment.... there are no. words that can explain to me what a decade of experience has already shown me. Thanks for your input though on the subect! Why are we even having this discussion. You have pointed out that this forum has nothing to do with rainbow other than the kindness of hosting. I cam for the "rainbow" aspect. I did not come to participate in all the other hippy shit that is on hip forums. So... maybe you are wrong.... maybe this area is about "rainbow"

Of course! It happens to far too many people in this world of today. That is a whole subject all on it's own. What is wrong with just denying that these things happen at gatherings. Is that getting old?

Glad to hear it, though reading your last sentence of abandoment at the end..... I would have to have second thoughts on believeing that. But hey, "WHATEVER"

Thank you for your input! Funny, I thought this "circle" has a time bestowed upon it. Do you walk away from all circles when things do not go to your liking? I guess people often walk away from things they oviously do not care about! Happens everyday! Just as you have your opinons, I have my own. Are you 2 people or one? Maybe, next time you can write in different colors for each individuals input. I can express for my other half..... but she is human and can express things quite fine herself. ( and believe me... she has to put up with alot from me and others that think they can get to me through her!) So I won't even go there. You have taken my input and decided to leave. I, under no circumstances, was attacking you as an individual. ( well, maybe a little, old habits are hard to break... but I am working on it) If you want to run from a convesrsation, because someone has other views than yours....so be it. I did not know that my thoughts would have offended you and that was not my intention at all.

A discussion about "rainbow" is a discussion about "rainbow". It does not matter where it is at. If this is not a place... then why do people come and post here? I feel that whomever owns this forum, would have no problem with what I have said. I am sure they could see that everyone's opinion (including mine) is just as valid as yours or anyone else's for the matter. If you want to participate in a thread about "rainbow" you will get people's opinions on the subject. If you don't you won't. I have not been negative, I have not been threatening, I have not told anyone to go and hang themselves and asked them if they need me to mail them a hemp noose. I have simply stated my opinion on the matter. And I do not think it is unjust.

People talk bad about AGR/O here. But, then turn around and invite people that might linger there... over to here to participate in a forum. That is proper... it is a "rainbow" discussion. But, if people do come over and post thier opinions... are the worth any less then yours? I would think not. I came from AGR/O and have caused small problems in the past. But not everyone there are wicked people. There are some very beautiful folks there and I am sure they participate here also. How stereotyping others and calling them derogatory terms is "rainbow" I will never understand... but that is a topic all on it's own! Sorry, I won't run of like a dog with his tail between his legs. If I state my opinion I will stand by it.... till the end!

Hippystead.... your input is much valued oviously. If you choose not to participate in the discussion any further... you are doing so at your own choice. And that is the only reason! Just because one individual disagrees with some things you say, does not mean they would disagree with everything you say.

I am an individual who has thier own thoughts. If something I say turns one person off to "rainbow", that is not my intentions. Should I be required to hold my feelings in amongst my fellow sisters and brothers? I would think not!

Love, hugs, and nugs!

Az

 

see how easy that was??

Wow drum circle was kickin,,i see things have chilled here..

so i would assume after all the rhetoric from both sides nuthin changes??

How RAINBOW!!

 

Here's my 2-beads worth of what I've observed. I see a lot of suffering.

Some Family feel that suffering, when New Family have experienced suffering by the hands of Family that is influenced by the suffering of the "Worldly World".

Some Family felt the suffering so acutely because they have opened to their Heartsong and have become so very sensitive.

The Family members that are sensitized to the suffering want to have respite from the suffering, and want to have a choice as to wether they want to spend their finite time reading about more suffering.

I believe that our Family that feel sensitive to the suffering ~ should take a break from reading that suffering, or heal the suffering, like the Rainbow Warriors they have been born to be.

Having a place to enter with the intention to heal ~ has it's place. I like that idea. AND I also like that idea of not allowing that suffering to stay in the dark.

I say, allow the complaints to be wherever they fall in to post queue, AND have a place for the complaints to HEAL with the intention of HEALING.

 

Lol!
How I have missed you, brother!

 

voted no..... because I like my negitive all mixed up with my positive.. goes down eaiser...


Mike...

 

But ! what if I for example wanted to read some complaints as to see if i could help advise on, i have to peek and poke arround to find them,some of us that are in the woods allready and dont have time to read everything due to public access and all, Sometimes it would be nice to have a certain place to go and help,So how bout this, leave the post in the spot they were placed with maybe placing a "copy" in a box if you want it moved?