whats the reason for anyof it

What do Buddhist think causes the illusion of self? Where do they think it comes from and what is it there for?

 

There are so many different schools of Buddhism, you gonna have to be more specefic then that.

Since I'm into the only consciousness school, it comes from consciousness... thus only the seperate self is an illussion... although this school would never call this one consciousness the "SELF" that yoga talks about... it is essential the same. They just don't like to use that word Self because they are in fact buddhist. But they are agreeing that it's one consciousness.. and they say that there is no duality... Thus it is THE SAME as when a yogi talks about going beyond duality to realize the supreme Self.

From Wikipedia, "In Buddhism, consciousness-only (Sanskrit: vijñapti-mātratā, vijñapti-mātra, citta-mātra; Chinese: 唯識; Pinyin: wei shi; Japanese: yuishiki) is a theory according to which all existence is nothing but consciousness, and therefore there is nothing that lies outside of the mind. This means that conscious-experience is nothing but false discriminations or imaginations; a provisional antidote; thus, the notion of consciousness-only is an indictment of the problems engendered by the activities of consciousness. This was a major component of the thought of the school of Yogācāra, which had a major impact on subsequent schools after its introduction in East Asia."

 

To actually answer your question ...

The illusion of the self is caused, originally, by ignorance. Because organisms in this world are born into ignorance, different senses become aware of other senses and constructs, and assign labels, and before you know it, all of your senses are saying "there are 5 other senses besides me, that make up my physical body" rather than most correctly saying "there are 5 other senses in this physical body besides this one."

That's how I've understood it, at least.

Edit: Also, it doesn't come from consciousness, at least not according to Buddhism.

 

Buddhism exists in contradistinction to creationist religions. In Buddhism there is no specific reason for things to exist save for as the expression of karma. There is no reason to practice except insofar as it betters karma and that better karma spreads and makes things free. The primordial mind is that of the Buddha already. We practice to realize that. When we realize that then all things are the spontaneous manifestation of clear light awareness. No awareness no arising = awareness equals arising. Everything exists due to awareness.

 

I suppose I skipped a few steps ... but concept of self is due to awareness, which is then in part caused by ignorance (no?).

 

so assuming its just our ego/brain telling us were individuals, then what would the world look like if there were no human conscience? I dont understand the "all is one" idea, is all one physically or symbolicly? Is everything literally one massive conscience floating somewhere or is everything just interconnected, but still seperate?

 

Everything exists due to awareness.

Yes.. Chodpa, that is what I mean by the one consciousness... when I say consciousness, I mean awareness... I use the terms interchangably as does my teacher Ram Dass.


In my mystical knowledge... it is all awareness... there is only ONE awareness ultimately, experience itself through all these different forms that are not really seperate.


And about all is one

Is is literally... It is all oneness... No seperation... no symbology... there is only seperation in illussion and dream... but essetially, it is all one.

Buddha realized this much more then I did....
In fact he merged so deeply into the one consciousness

he entered the reality of nonconceptualness... that can not be limited, it is infinite, thus any concept one puts on it... such as infinite or all is one, whatever what have you... no matter how realistic it is, it still limits it... it is beyond this...

Which is why Buddha held up a rose... to blow peoples minds to get them beyond concepts.

and called it Nirvana.

 

Time and identification. Time because the mind can only think in terms of the past and future, and in desiring (which is always in the future). The thinking process is taken to be oneself (identification). That is the illusion. It is only seen as such when thinking stops; "no-mind".

Pass life habits.

It is there because it is there; and because it is there to eventually become free from it. haha.

Instead of asking, meditate and find out for yourself. Otherwise any answers you get will mean nothing but second hand knowledge. Ask yourself every conscious moment "Who am I?" Whats so ever answer you come up with is not it.

 

It wouldn't look like anything, there would be no perspective to observe it.

The "all is one" idea doesn't have much to do with consciousness, as much as it has to do with perception, with interpretation, and with lack of ego.

Realizing that the ego is a sort of illusion, helps one realize that ego causes separation, and that by shedding the ego, one can be more connected to all other sentient beings, and have similar interpretations.

Actually, according to the First Noble Truth, Dukkha, awareness exists due to everything.

GanjaPrince: If you are not going to speak in Buddhist terms, perhaps you should stop being a troll on these forums, and leave, and make your own personal forum or something.

Otherwise, you are just confusing seekers of truth by misrepresenting Buddhism, becuase you talk like you know it all about Buddhism, when you are far from the truth, and even Buddhist monks have told you this.

You can't misrepresent Buddhism forever, GP.

 

Hikaru, my friend, my self, a being not seperate from me.

I love you, I must clarify a few things.

There are many schools in Buddhism, the school of Buddhism I spoke of that talks about consciousness only and non duality and so on is no more or less Buddhist then the school you talk about... It like the catholics are no less christians then the jehovah's witnesses... they all fall into the catagory of christianity. And each have the right to debate each other on the christian forum if they want... and non christians are welcome on the christian forum to... Christians kind of like that in a way because it fuels the fire for christ and they are doing christ's work in trying to convert hell bound souls... (This is fundementalists I speak of)

Thus these teachings are a valid on a buddhist forum.
From Wikipedia, "In Buddhism, consciousness-only (Sanskrit: vijñapti-mātratā, vijñapti-mātra, citta-mātra; Chinese: 唯識; Pinyin: wei shi; Japanese: yuishiki) is a theory according to which all existence is nothing but consciousness, and therefore there is nothing that lies outside of the mind. This means that conscious-experience is nothing but false discriminations or imaginations; a provisional antidote; thus, the notion of consciousness-only is an indictment of the problems engendered by the activities of consciousness. This was a major component of the thought of the school of Yogācāra, which had a major impact on subsequent schools after its introduction in East Asia."

Non duality is another basic teaching of the school mentioned above... thus one conciousness.


There are also different interpretations of the buddhism schools you promote, and so on. I agree 100% and know the truth as Ram Dass describes it in Remember Be Here Now... In this he mixes all the religions together in order to express the nonconceptual truth that the one consciousness is, who I am, and you are... going beyond duality and seperation. Uniting the religions.

"You are the laws of the universe! This is what the journey into the consciousness is all about. Its going OM. THIS IS THE PLACE! Becoming one with god, returning. Its the return to the roots that the tao talks about. It is the stillness, the calmness the fulfillment. When you make love and experience the ecstacy of unity. That's the place! When you experience a great achievement, and you feel a moment of exhilaration. That's the place! When you see a moment of poetry in a flower or in words or in art. The way its suppose to be... THIS IS THE PLACE! RIGHT HERE! It's BUDDHA CONSCIOUSNESS. It's CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS. Jesus says I am my father are one. When Buddha says You give up attachment and you finish with the illussion. THIS IS THE PLACE!" - Ram Dass


Ram Dass and me and others, promote a view that all the religions are fingers pointing at the moon. That Buddha, Christ, Gurus and so on are realized beings that merged into this oneness, this one consciousness in realization only, since it is already here now, it is already YOU! As you merge with it, all concepts of it fall away, because concepts are limiting... How can one limit the infinite?

We consider this "the way it is" not because of intellectual reasoning, but because of our own personal mystical experiences of this truth. You must see where I am coming from, the place inside my being that I speak from. My mystical experiences have become unifed into a daily ever-present awareness of God. Thus I live my life as a beginner in awareness of this truth... a beginner in knowing the one consciousness. I follow the teachings of my guru, Neem Karoli Baba, who I commune with through planes of consciousness and guides me in my life and helps liberate me... He says, "sub ek" which is "all is one" He means this in that it's awareness and consciousness... He once looked at a picture of his body and a lama's body and pointing to both saying "Buddha... Buddha..." Thus that which is a being of unity knows all sees all does all, is all. There is only one BEING. It has all this knowledge and is aware. Thus a being like Neem Karoli Baba could know everything about a person's past and future because he dived much much deeper into the one consciousness then I did. I have witnessed his miracles personally in my life, things that defy any rational explanation... and he visisted me in dreams. I follow the teachings of one of his devotees Ram Dass, and his Remember; Be Here Now was once called the hippie bible as a cosmic joke sort deal. I use it as a bible, my main book in other words. Ram Dass wants each person to find thier own method and own teachers and own things that work for them and thier karma... I followed Ram Dass's model, and practice meditation, psychedelic drugs, mantra, gurus, study, and other teachings. I have an alter which has a picture of BUDDHA as well as Neem Karoli Baba, other gurus, Jesus, hitler, satan, and all kinds of things. My main practice is being here now, and remembering the one conciousness in all I do... I do my mantra in my head "ram ram ram ram" during my daily activities, when I masterbate I try to stay on my tantric mantra "ma ma ma ma" to remember the one consciousness while jerking off... I also practice tantra with women, when they are around... or I hold up one finger while listening to somebody to remind me, I always find myself holding up one finger wherever I go... I carry around a picture of my guru, I have beads and so on... all to keep me remembering. This helps me remember, this activity posting on these forums in jnana yoga. I also practice others forms of yoga, bhakti, raja, karma and so on... all which I see as fitting into Buddha teaching... I often commune with Buddha personally and he explains it to me in a fact that makes sense and works for my karma.


So I really really must explain that that I'm not misrepresting Buddhism... and just because I say "this is the way it is" doesn't mean I urge you to stop making posts about the way you view things or want to convert you... No matter how much I disagree with you and think your words are the work of maya(the force which keep people in illussion)... I feel you are serving your part, you are equal to me, you are Christ, you are Buddha... I enjoy reading your posts, and I enjoy debating with you... And I don't ask you to stop making posts because I disagreeone finger while listening to somebody to remind me, I always find myself holding up one finger wherever I go... I carry around a picture of my guru, I have beads and so on... all to keep me remembering. This helps me remember, this activity posting on these forums in jnana yoga. I also practice others forms of yoga, bhakti, raja, karma and so on... all which I see as fitting into Buddha teaching... I often commune with Buddha personally and he explains it to me in a fact that makes sense and works for my karma.


So I really really must explain that that I'm not misrepresting Buddhism... and just because I say "this is the way it is" doesn't mean I urge you to stop making posts about the way you view things or want to convert you... No matter how much I disagree with you and think your words are the work of maya(the force which keep people in illussion)... I feel you are serving your part, you are equal to me, you are Christ, you are Buddha... I enjoy reading your posts, and I enjoy debating with you... And I don't ask you to stop making posts because I disagree with you... I just think that perhaps you are asking me to stop, because you see me as a threat to your way of interpreting Buddhism... and perhaps even have some doubts. If you did not doubt why would you ask me to leave? I could be wrong about your mind, you could have no doubts at all. But this forum, it is about free speech and expressing differing ideas about Buddhism. A christian is more then welcome to come in here and say Buddha is the work of Satan, that would be fine with me. Libertine for example, couldn't disagree with me more, and yet we have developed an online sort of friendship and admiration of each other... why can we not do the same Hikuru? Can't you put down your swords and pick up a flower instead. Those who live by the sword die by the sword!


All we are saying is give peace a chance! It's all about LOVE

Love is at the center!

Come on give it a chance! It's here now!

Beyond religion, beyond the finger pointing at the moon.

Beyond christ, beyond buddha, beyond all concepts...

Beyond the beyond!

And beyond the concept of going beyond!

It is HERE NOW

Experience it right now

STOP THINKING
STOP TALKING
JUST BE HERE NOW

And you will KNOW
What it is that I talk and think about.
And you will understand what I mean when I say "All is one consciousness"

Here is part of an Oasis song the lyrics are in italics.

All my people right here, right now
D'You Know What I Mean?
All my people right here, right now
D'You Know What I Mean?
All my people right here, right now
D'You Know What I Mean?
Yeah, yeah


He is speaking to the people that know about the here and now... his people!



I don't really care for what you believe
So open up your fist or you won't receive
The thoughts and the words of every man you'll need
Get up off the floor and believe in life
No-one's ever gonna ever ask you twice
Get on the bus and bring it on home to me

He doesn't care what you believe, because it is about KNOWING, and believing in your own knowledge. so open up your fist stop trying to fight each other over beliefs... Everybody has something to teach you, the thoughts and words of every man you need, because Everybody is the guru when you know how to listen. So get off the floor of being devasted by it all, and believe in your own being, here now, life is right here right now... and it is immortal life, because only the body dies. Here he is asking you right now, this is your chance, this is it, you embrace is now, because later... forget it baby, that's later. NOW IS NOW! So get on the bus... the BUS, B-US, BE US... the one conscousness, realize it and join our movement to form a realized oneness that ends suffering and conflict. and bring it home, OM, the HERE NOW. to ME. I AM. He's is talking about YOU. YOU ARE ME!


And you will say Ah HA, that is just his way of expressing this truth that I also realized now that I went inside... I honor his map and I honor my own and we can move forward together as one. THat's getting on the BUS. the Bus welcomes all religions and non religions... as long as we are working and being as one... that is what the BUS is about.

 

Ahhh ...

Yes ...

Let us not forget Wikipedia Buddhism ...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Feather
All mystics contradict themselves. It can't be helped because they use our language which is itself contradictory.

There is the story of a man who came to Buddha and asked him if there was a God. He said No.

Later on that day there came another man who asked the same question and Buddha said Yes.

His main disciple asked him why he was being contradictory. Buddha said that each question, and therefore questioner, was unique so the answer also had to be unique, according to each individual's need.




One day this buddhist fundemenatlist came up to the Buddha the historical one.


Darrel asked, "master buddha, there are so many schools of Buddhism since you sat under the bodhi tree and realized enlightenment... one even says it's all only consciousness with no duality, what do you think of that? Some even say that Buddha and Christ realized the same realization and just expressed it different ways... This is obviously not true, so what do you have to say about this?"

Buddha gave a big belly laugh, and handed Darrel a rose. He then touched Darrel on the forehead.

Darrel smiled and giggled. Ahhh...

Darrel then said, "It was never in your words was it, it was in the experience you had... why fight over maps that lead nowhere, they all get your nowhere... now here!"

Buddha laughs again. Buddha then said, "Buddha consciousness is a tricky thing to realize, the maps in all these different mystical traditions are valid. People like you have taken everything I said too literally and seriously. why take cosmic jokes serious? Im glad you are lightening up Darrel, you will advance much further in your practice now."

Buddha then disappeared.

Darrel started writing a long apology note to the Ganja Prince, his fundemantalism is a thing of the past...


A warning for those that study buddhism

"Is there a "new" Buddhism evolving in the West?
Yes, Western people are definitely bringing into Buddhism their own stuff. There are some traits which actually are disturbing. Some people tend to be a lot less tolerant than people in the East. Looking at some of the Internet and in the chat rooms there's almost a sort of Buddhism fundamentalism, which I think is mirroring general Western attitudes which likes to see things as very black and white, you know: "We're right, you're wrong, there's absolutely no way you could be right..." And I think that's disturbing because you don't find that in the East at all, from what I would call native Buddhists -- people in Japan, Southeast Asia, Tibetans and so on -- are much more tolerant of viewpoints."
Stephen Hodge





A buddhist temple.... hmmm didn't hitler use that symbol?

I'm a big fan of Buddhism... but buddhist fundemantlists are no better then nazis.

No offense Darrel, it is horribly beautiful and a cosmic joke... Here is a funny picture to lighten this up.



Make me ONE WITH EVERYTHING!


Wohooo!
One consciousness!

It's ok if anyone of you want to do any other trip... that the world sits on top of a turtle and when we die we have party in the turtle's stomach

If that's your trip!

Whatever, get lost in the dream, that's part of waking up

I love you all!


More on Buddhism and one consciousness from NON wikipedia sites. since wikipedia was so dissed by darrel



"Lama Govinda, deep student of Tibetan Buddhism, commenting on the Lankavatara Sutra, says that intellectual consciousness (concrete mind) sorts and judges sense impressions, followed by attractions and repulsions. “Universal consciousness,” on the other hand, “is compared to the ocean, on the surface of which currents, waves, and whirlpools are formed, while its depths remain motionless, unperturbed, pure, and clear” (Govinda, Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism 73–74). Mind is the focal point between surface and depth consciousness. Atma, the one infinite consciousness, is focused in us as individuals."
See when Buddha seeming put down consciousness he was talking about a certain kind, not the universal consciousness which is an ocean... what we have here is a misunderstanding of concepts and words here Darrel and Hikuru.

"When we look at a place like New York City, we see many millions of people who walk around and who do all sorts of things. With all respect, if we look from one perspective, it is just like looking at ants. But what is happening is that they are all just trying to take care of their body and their mind, what else? So this is a rather vast subject: the importance of a healthy body and a healthy mind and the connection between the two. First of all, let's look into the Buddhist concept of enlightenment and try to relate that to this subject. Enlightenment, or Buddhahood, means that a person reaches finally to their potential or destination, and that the person fully awakens and fully develops. So that particular person, whoever he or she is, when he or she fully awakens and fully develops, they reach Buddhahood. Reaching Buddhahood means a state of consciousness totally awakened and developed. So that means that such a person has a perfect and healthy mind." - Dalai Lama

Now connect this with his words on nonduality

"Ultimate bodhicitta is non-dual. " - Dalai Lama


What a second... here is the Dalai lama saying that it is a sate of conciousness and it is non dual

DUH!

He is talking about the one consciousness

The Dalai Lama is no idiot friends, he gets it!

 

I read once somewhere that when buddha was asked the meaning of it all or why is any of this here he responded with its none of your business...meaning that its not, don't worry about it just be mindful of where your at and work with that....I think it also said he may have said 'I can't tell you' because at the level your at its really impossible for your mind to logically grasp the reason behind it all and until you see that you are the reason, the question and the answer then your always going to be a step behind the answer

I think you misunderstand buddhism, to me buddhism is about compassion and love for all beings...nazi's are about the supremecy of their values and suppresion of other values---by mass killing
I don't see any similarities

 

ahhh tiki, it was a cosmic joke, buddhist fudemenatalists are no better the nazis, niether are non buddhist fundemenalists... No one is better or worse then anyone else. Everybody is equal because it is all one consciousness.. you can blame groups or individuals... all you can blame is the one consciousness it is all there it... its will cannot be opposse

 

Oh, shucks !!! Dear me !!! Whatever shall I do ???

I totally forgot that Buddha taught "Mysticism" ... *gasps* ... I so totally mislead everyone by omitting that one important teaching of his ...

Oh well ... guess I truly am a disgrace to the robes ...

HTML:

HTML:

HTML:

HTML:

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH!

What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor ... that's a damn fine joke, if I do say so myself ...

 

So we can all blame you then?

Mission accomplished.

 

Actually it is reversed. The Socialist icon is clockwise turning. The original is much much older. Even American Indians were using it before 1938.

 

It's much older than 1938. It's been in use for, if I'm not mistaken, at least several hundred years, if not thousands ...

(Most of the time, when it is used, it was reversed; i.e. the top part went to the left, not to the right.)

 

That's what I am also saying, that it going counter-clockwise means that it is the old symbol whereas the National Socialist Party used it with it going clockwise.