breastmilk isn't really magic, just NEARLY so...

Every single one of my friends that tried to BF couldn't. It either hurt them to the point of crying or they developed an infection and couldn't do it. If I am capable of it then I might try it. But I'm honestly not to attracted to it. I think it would drive me nuts.

 

Um, your friends must have not looked far for help. I'm a Lactation Consultant, and virtually EVERY womyn can breastfeed. Nearly ALL problems with breastfeeding can be solved. WHY would it "drive you nuts?" I am amazed. I am just going to assume you haven't had enough exposure to breastfeeding to make an educated decision about this MOST important issue.

IMO, the damage to the immune system, the lowered IQ, the INCREASED death rate, the increased ear infection, GI infection, and future increases in cancer alone resulting from a baby NOT being breastfed would "drive me nuts."

In very very very very rare cases breastfeeding cannot be done (I am talking maybe every 1 in 1000 or more mothers) but no one should say they aren't going to do it BEFORE they even have a baby. (Unless, of course, you don't have any breasts, then you have an excuse. However the SIZE of your breasts has NOTHING to do with milk production.)

You need to educate yourself on the subject. If someone goes into parenting, and assumes they will not do some of the most basic things expected from being a parent, I get really worried.

A couple a weeks ago, I spent days cleaning up puke and shit from FOUR sick kids with the stomach flu. I wasn't "into it" I HATE puke. It "drove me nuts." But y'know what. We do it anyway, because that is what is required to be a parent. Doing a LOT of stuff you'd rather not be doing. This isn't a judgement call, just a reality check. You don't have kids yet, so you do, luckily, have plenty of time to learn more than your freinds wanted to. I think you will do well, if you try to learn about mothering, IF you do decide you want children in the first place.

Here is some good things to read. I am assuming your bias against breastfeeding is simply born of inexperience, and having the misfortune of not ever being around people who do know how to feed a baby on the breast, so PLEASE read these articles:

How breastfeeding protects babies

http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/29.html



Myths about breastfeeding (stuff your “sister in law” or your mother or even a doctor may have told you, but has no basis in fact. Plus the truth on these issues. YES, it took four pages to debunk them all and Jack Newman isn’t done yet.)



http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/11.html



http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/12.html





http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/13.html



http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/14.html





But, formula is “fine” isn’t it? Read this. This is mostly references studies on how it isn’t “fine” but it gives you plenty of proof why. Anyone who can read a basic research article can make sense of this.

http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/30.html



Or go to www.breastfeeding.com

www.kellymom.com

www.lalecheleague.org
www.mothering.com
for more information



If you read all this and still think breastfeeding will “drive you nuts” I don’t have much to say……..Just one thing…..Breastfeeding is FAR from the hardest part of parenting.




Off soap box now. (Chill Maggie Chill.........)

 

Oh, KC, I'm sorry you two had such a horrible experience. My thoughts and prayers are with you both. I'm glad things are better now.

Jazzmama said:

Ach, there is NO excuse for this type of incompetence. Of course, it is usually the norm with a LOT of hospital based LCs. They often have too many patients, too little training, barely pass the Boards to practice and some hospitals even SAY that nonRegistered people are "Lactation Consultants." An exam of a newborn REQUIRES an oral-digital exam (basically the LC puts on a NONlatex glove and lets the baby suck her finger so she can feel what is going on in the baby' mouth. Not to mention LOOKING into the kids mouth. It's the first thing I do during an evaluation, after playing with the baby and taking a history.

There is good treatment for Thrush, you don't need to suffer. You and the baby need medication to treat the problem. Diflucan for you and the baby for a MINIMUM of 7 days is neccesary. ONE dose of this drug doesn't do it, and it if is as bad as you say, topical treatments are not going to be all that helpful , if you have already tried them and are still having the thrush. I'll post a page from my old webpage about thrush, so you can see.

 

Yeastie Beasties,

or everything you always needed to know about thrush.

Thrush sucks. Ask anyone who has had it. Mamas hate it babies hate it, LCs hate it cuz either someone has it and we can't get it treated or someone doesn't have it and insisits that they do.

Symptoms:

Mama: Burning nipples, itching nipples, scaling and peeling, feeling described as "broken glass" going into the nipple.

With ductal thrush: Deep breast pain after a bout with nipple thrush, shooting pain into breast and often into armpit.

Usually a lack of fever or the malaise that accompanies bacterial mastitis.

Baby: White "plaque"in baby's mouth. Looks like milk that can't be rubbed away. If plaque is able to be removed, some blood may appear.

A "Pearly Membrane" inside of mouth that is slightly whitish and translucent.

A red raised edge diaper rash with red bumps.

Gas and fussiness. Some babies whose mouths are in great pain may refuse to nurse or fuss at the breast.

Many babies have NO symptoms at all! They can still give the thrush back to you, though!

What to do about it:

The best person to diagnose you is a La Leche League Leader or a Board Certified Lactation Consultant. (A private practive LC is best, not the overworked ones who work for the hospital.) Not all sore nipples are thrush and you need to make sure of what you have.

Sugar's Words of Wisdom:

Both you and the baby need to be treated, even if only one of you has symptoms.

The first line of treatment is Nystatin for the baby and an antifungal cream for your nipples. (Usually Monistat, Clotrimizole or something similar.)

Put the dosage amount (plus a few extra drops for abosrption) of Nystatitn in a paper cup and soak it up with a Q-tip. Rub this all over the baby's gums, tongue, roof and bottom of mouth. Ask the prescribing doc how often you can use it, keeping in mind yeast can proliferate in only and hour or two. We often dose every 2 hours for severe infections.

You may be given and antifungal for the baby's butt if she has diaper rash yeast.(Mycolog or something similar.) Use this as prescribed. Any med left in the cup can be fed to baby to drink. This will help to kill any yeast in her GI tract. Just give it to her out of the cup, with her sitting up on your lap.

Use the cream prescribed for your nipples as directed.

This should continue for at least 10 days, even if you feel better after just a few. If you don't kill all the yeast, it will come back after you stop the meds and the next infection will have developed resistance to the meds and you may need something stronger. SOme mamas will mix their antifungal with a triple antibiotic creme and a hydrocortizone ointment. THIS may well help, as cases of extended thrush almost always have bacterial components, which is WHY you aren't healing. Take 33% antifungal, 33% hydrocortizone and 33% triple antibiotic ointment. Use it at least 4 times a day. If that doesn't work, you may need an other treatment.

I did that and I still have it!

Yeah, that happens a lot. About 50% of the yeast strains common in North America are resistant to Nystatin.

What to do next OR what to do if your doctor "doesn't believe in thrush."

There are still HCPs who don't treat for thrush. Breastfed babies have much milder symptoms than FF kids and some docs don't know what to look for. Also, many don't believe that mamas can get the thrush from babies and won't treat you. Here's what to do:

1) Get a new doctor. It's my opinion that if your doc is this ignorant about thrush and breastfeeding, what else is he ignorant about? I wouldn't want him in a dire emergency. I would also want someone caring for my baby and I who listens to me and believes me.

2)You can do Gentian Violet.

Gentian is an OTC med that you can use to treat thrush if you have no other option. It is messy, it doesn't always work and you have to be careful with it, but some mamas have no other choice. It's cheap, you don't need a prescription and you can do it yourself.

Use only Gentian Violet .5% (that's point five per cent) any stronger can cause burns. If you can only get the 1% dilute it 1:1 with sterile, distilled water, only as much as you will use in a day.

Use twice a day for no more than 3 days.

Put about a 1/2 tsp in a disposable paper cup.

Using a disposable swab (Q-tip) soak up the Gentian and paint your nipples and the baby's whole mouth with the stuff like the Nystatin directions above. Repeat 2 X a day for 3 days. Use a separate swab for each dosing and a separate swab for you and the baby.

Wear really raggy clothes and put old clothes on the baby. This stuff stains like crazy. It may take a few days to wear off.

What to do if you still have it or you start getting pains in your breasts.

First of all, see your lactation specialist to make sure it is thrush. These cures will not work for a bacterial infection, poor latch on or other causes of sore nipples.

If you are sure it is thrush, you've tried the Nystatin or Gentian, OR you have shooting breast pain, which may mean the yeast has invaded the duct and nothing you put on your skin will effect it.

Talk to your Doc or Midwife about Diflucan. It is a systemic antifungal which works from the inside. Nystatin, Gentian, Clotrimizole are all contact substances that have to touch every yeast bud to irradicate the infection.

Diflucan is different, you take the tablet and it works systemically. It is compatible with breastfeeding and can be used in babies over 1 day of age.

Diflucan is given one 125 mg tablet, once a day for 2 weeks OR one 125 mg. tablet, once a day for 3 days, one week off then one 125 mg. tablet, once a day for 3 more days. This newer prescribing method is gaining popularity. It depends on your doc which one he or she wants to try.

Other Stuff to Help Kill the Beasties

1)Try to clean up your diet. Don't go nuts and stop eating fruit and bread and live like a fasting monk, (research doesn't support the theory that you can cure yeast with food changes) but your immune system will function better without a lot of sugar and junk in your diet.

2)Take acidophilus. An enteric coated one is best. That way you don't have to take it on an empty stomach. (Primadophilus by Nature's Way is a good one.) This probiotic will recolonize you with good bacteria so the yeast won't be able to gain a foothold again. This stuff make more sense than eating tons of yogurt. You's have to eat 20 tubs of yogurt to get the bacterial load in a single capsule of Acidopilus. Plus, if you beleive the diet theories, dairy products (and that includes even yogurt) increases your suseptability to yeast. This will NOT cure thrush, just help you heal as the real medicines are doing their job.

3)Treat your partner if need be. Often sex partners are notorious for giving you the yeast back. Male partners will need to get either a vaginal yeast cream or Lotrimin AF and rub it on their penis several times a day for a few weeks, other men may need Diflcan also.

Some guys get the yeast on their balls and thighs, too. Put the cream there if need be. It looks red with a raised edge, and he may be really itchy. Make him use the stuff on his penis if you keep getting the thrush back after you've had some relief, as he may be asymptomatic and giving it back to you anyway.

If you have a female partner, she can start with an OTC vaginal yeast cream and may only need to go to Diflucan if that doesn't work or she gives it back to you again.

4) Keep everything that touches your breasts and the baby's mouth really clean!!!! This neccesitates boiling toys, breast shells, pacis, bottle and artificial nipples (if used) every day!!!! Some womyn even boil their bras. You can also bleach the bra (1 cup to a laundry load) as bleach kills yeast on inanimate objects well.

5) Use disposable nursing pads while you are being treated. It's one less thing to wash and worry about.

6) Wash your hands after going potty or scratching yourself and before nursing the baby. (Did I really have to say that?)

7) Boil your baby's diapers or consider a diaper service if you can afford it. It's important to kill all the yeast and home machines just don't get the water hot enough. You can also bleach your diapers, if you want, and just rinse them an extra time or two. (I'm assuming you are using cloth, here, don't boil your Huggies.)

8) Some mamas get relief from an analgesic (like Motrin or Tylenol) until the meds start to work. Some mamas are in so much pain that the doc will give you some codiene or Vicodin. If you are in severe pain, don't be afraid to ask.

Thrush can be treated and it is not a reason to wean. Educate yourself, find a good LC LLLleader and HCP and you will get through this.

Peace and health,

Maggie Sugar , IBCLC

Professor Emeritus, Department of Boobalogy

This page is for informational purposes only, it is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease or condition or take the place of your Health Care Provider.

Back to MaggieSugar's Homepage

 

Most of the women I know that are around my age that have "tried" to bf also said that they couldn't do it. I am not sure that I believe them. It's more like they didn't want to keep trying once it got tough. You know that period when your nipples hurt like hell at first because they are used to being sucked on all day? I would tell them just nurse through it, I PROMISE it will get better. But, it's just easier to give up.

A woman that I work with is pregnant right now. She was asking me if she should breastfeed. I told her most definitely. When I told her how long I nursed my girls, she was like-well, I'll probably just do it for 10 weeks (maternity leave) because I won't be able to when I get back to work. *sigh*

 

I tell my clients in a silly Yoda voice, "There is no TRY, only DO." Just DO it.

and of course, get help if you have trouble. There is plenty of good breastfeeding help out there, so no one has the excuse of simply saying "It didn''t work out." unless they REALLY had several professionals and helpful volunteers who agreed.

But in my experience someone who says "I am going to try breastfeeding." Already has her "escape" planned.

It's like getting married and saying, "We're going to try sex, but you know, it doesn't work out for everyone." No one gives up sex, because they had a difficult time the first few sessions, the same should go for breastfeeding.

 

Ain't THAT the truth I hate to hear mom's say that

Sugarmag, Buy your co-worker a copy of , "so that's what their for" I forget the authur, but it's a GREAT, lighthearted book all about breastfeeding. I give it to all my new mom friends and they all just love it. I read it while PG with my first and I was determined to have a successful BF relationship from the get go even though I knew NO ONE who BF.

My favorite advice from that book is to throw out or donate all the free formula you get while PG. Come home to NO OTHER OPTION.

Peace

 

My mom was telling me about her debacle with BF my younger brother, the one and only time she ever really tried to BF at all. She's convinced the same thing will happen to me...I'll explain what she told me.

1. Her breasts hurt everytime he latched on (improper latch, right?)
2. She was convinced he wasn't getting enough (but he had enough wet/poopie diapers)
3. She didn't have anything but colostrum coming out (not possible, right?)
4. She ferberized him after just 2 weeks (and night feedings are most important in getting early milk flow going, or so I've read).

Everytime she told me one of her "horrors", I'd tell her what I'd learned about why that happens and what to expect, blah blah. I've read three breastfeeding books so far, as well as internet information. I didn't want to go into this without any information.

Oh man! It's just killing me. These people will come up and start talking about pregnancy and labour, or breastfeeding, telling me these horror stories about what went wrong in labour, why hospital births are the only way to go, why breastfeeding just didn't work for them, and it's like they just didn't do their research at ALL!

One woman talked about what was happening to her a couple of days before her baby was born, talking about bloody show and mild back pains, saying it just didn't feel normal and she called her doctor freaking out, and ended up having a pitocin drip, every intervention possible, and said that if it weren't for the doctor, she wouldn't have made it. It just sounded like she had NO CLUE about the early signs of labour, no idea about birthing at all, expecting her doctor to do everything and think for her.

I'm literally sick and tired of all those ladies and even GUYS coming up and telling me all the horrid things. I mean, I don't want to sound like an absolute witch or anything, but I just don't understand how someone can go into such a life-changing event and not read up first.

/rant *grrr*

 

I don't have kids, and so have no personal experience breastfeeding, except on the recieving end. I'm the third of four kids in my family and my mom was a leader in her chapter of La Leche League. Personally, I nursed with my mommy for longer than my siblings, not stopping until I was three years old (well after my little brother had been born). Today, my mom and I have a WONDERFUL and WELL-ADJUSTED relationship, we talk about everything and even now that we live far apart (I haven't even seen her in almost two years) we are so well-connected that we each know when the other is upset.
My mom continued to breastfeed with me even as it became socially unacceptable with my age. She continued even as some of her colleagues in La Leche League thought she was "taking it too far", because I was really not ready to stop. I think on some level I really understood what she was doing for me, and a truely special level of intimacy and trust developed between us.
This trust was really apparent when I was a teenager, really smart for my age, and homeschooled. (I was the only one of the kids who homeschooled, because my school didn't teach me, just gave me advanced books and put me in the back of the room and let me teach myself) Even as both of my parents worked, and my dad worried, my mom knew she could trust me and allowed me to guide my own education.
I know I probably can't attribute all the wonderful things in my entire life to having breastfed for so long, but looking back I can definitely see a wonderful effect that it had in my development.
If and When I decide to become a mommy myself, I will do my damndest to develop as wonderful a relationship with my child(ren).

 

runnin around tryin to make a bottle while the baby's crying, needing to go to the store in the middle of the night, always needing heating/refridgeration appliances, blowing tons of money on formula and all the required paraphanalia... THAT would make me nuts.

i love it that it's always ready and we have freedom to take the baby everywhere. maybe i'm just lazy...

 

Hummblebee, that was an awesome post! Your mom sounds like a great person.

HF, I'm realy glad you're reading up and educating yourself. You're going to have a BLAST with your new babe

 

people tell you their so-called bf problems and try to convince you it sucks beforehand because they deep down feel bad about their decision & want some to affirm them externally because they can't get that internally.

 

Uh huh

 

That is why I'm trying to convince this woman that I work with that breastfeeding is definitely better, easier, etc. I hope it sinks in.

 

My MIL gave up immediately with the first and didn't even try the next 2, and as she is an "expert on everything", it absolutely eats her alive that I could do something she couldn't.

Every time I nursed in front of her I had to hear the same excuses over and over of how it was impossible because the baby was "born teething"....I don't bother to mention that both my children had mouths full of teeth before I was done.....

 

my mother did both. i couldn't breastfeed because it made me really sick. (i was a total pain in the ass). but everyone else was breastfed WHILE working, both in the late sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties. she's done breast pumps, hand expression had her baby brought to her, fought her bosses, everything. she's a fountain of experience with children.

 

'bee, I'm surprised that her LLL group thought she was "taking it too far." LLL is a great organization, the problem is, one overbearing leader, who is going beyond the bounds of their training or not fulfilling or upholding LLL philosophy can ruin a group. I try to let my group run itself, because I have strong persoanlity, I don't want it overbearing the group. (Not an easy task for me.) I'm there as a leader to keep things on track and make sure LLL Philosophy is being represented. Not (as I do as a Lactation Consultant) give more than that, as well as strong personal opinions. In my group, when I DO give a personal opinion about something, I always preface it with "This is my personal opiniona and I'm speaking only as a mom, and not as a LLL leader." But one does have to be careful.

I nursed my kids into toddlerhood, too. My youngest baby Sage, (now 6) weaned herself at four and a half years. Never had any flack from anyone in my group. Of course, in the 60s or 70s, thing may have been different, but also, different groups have VERY different dynamics, and your mom could have been in a more conservative one.

I'm glad she stuck to her guns and did was what best for her baby.

KC what you said about people wanting to "affirm" their decision to quit is absolutely right. I always think that if a mom really believed she did EVERYTHING in her power, including talking to quailified volunteers and hiring professional lactation consultants, and it still didn't "work out" then she wouldn't have to "affirm" anything.

My peeve is when people tell me some excuse that I KNOW is easily overcome, (as I've usually helped hundreds of moms with the same problem) and they present it to me like it is something I never heard before. Yesterday I got a call that one mom stopped because "The nipples were BLEEDING." Yeah, seen blood before, on my own nips, it sucks, it hurts, is means something is going wrong (usually with the latch) but it RARELY means one has to wean. It was weird because I think she though I was going to freak out about a bleeding nip. Hey, it HURTS, I empathize, but it doesn't prevent you from continuing, especially when there is HELP available. I've bled with THREE of my four kids, still kept it up. after learning how to correct the latch. (And with Sage, it was an anomoly of her upper lip which could NOT be corrected, so I just dealt with it. Sucked and hurt like hell, but I wasn't going to let her go on that stuff, because of a little pain and blood. I'll bleed for my kids, there is worse pain in parenting than a sore nipple.)

Keep up the good work, mamas!!!!

 

ain't dat da truth!!!!!!!!!

 

Since moving home, i've told everyone that I am going to breastfeed, and use cloth diapers. And everyone has been 100% behind me. Most women have usually responded with "of course you'll breastfeed.. why wouldn't you?". Further goes to prove my claim that SK is abnormal... lol.

 

I meant that my MIL is a know-it-all...about everything in the whole world... If you have a story, she's got one that's better than yours..that type of person...