Some here may be familiar with it, but I'd like to present former minister Dan Barker's Easter Challenge... many have tried to harmonize the discrepancies, none to the satisfaction of skeptics. The best account that I'm aware of is John Wenham's, yet even he concludes "It is a worthless piece of Christian apologetic at whatever date it was written, unless it happens to be undeniably true" (Easter Enigma, Academie Books, 1984). Personally I think his explanation is simply too hard to believe, but anyways... I've modified the actual challenge from Mr. Barker's website (http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=stone) so that I don't get in any trouble. The challenge is simple: tell what happened on Easter. It's not an attempt to prove whether or not the resurrection happened, the challenge is to resolve the inconsistencies in the four gospels. Beginning at Easter morning, read to the end of the books (Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Acts 1:3-12 and Paul's tiny version of the story in I Corinthians 15:3-8 should also be included) and without omitting a single detail from them, provide a chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension. Educated guesses are allowed, but a plausible account is required, and if non-textual events are required, provide them separately, in quotes. The discrepancies, if anyone isn't familiar with them, are this: Matthew, Mark and Luke have the women visiting the tomb in the early morning, but John said "when it was yet dark." Matthew said the women were Mary Magdalene (MM) and the other Mary. Mark said MM, the mother of James, and Salome. Luke said MM, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women. John said MM. Matthew said they came to see the tomb. Mark and Luke said they’d already seen it, and were bringing spices to anoint the body. John said the body had already been spiced before they arrived. Matthew said the tomb wasn’t open when the got to the tomb. Mark, Luke, and John said it was. Matthew said an angel was at the tomb when they got there. Mark said a young man was. Luke said two men were. John said two angels were. Matthew said the angel was outside, on the stone. Mark said the young man was inside, on the right. Luke said the two men were standing inside. John said the two angels were sitting on each end of the bed. Matthew, Luke, and John said the women told others what happened, Mark said "Neither said they any thing to any man." Matthew, Mark, and Luke said that when Mary returned from the tomb, she knew Jesus had been resurrected. John said she did not. Matthew and Mark said Mary first saw Jesus before she returned to the disciples. John said she saw Him after she returned to the disciples. Matthew said Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples. Mark and Luke said He appeared to two disciples in the country (Luke said Emmaus, actually), and later to the eleven. John said He appeared to ten disciples. Paul said first to Peter, then to the twelve (didn’t Paul know Judas was dead?). Matthew said Jesus first appeared on a mountain in Galilee. Mark said to two in the country, then eleven disciples "as they sat at meat." Luke said in Emmaus at evening, to the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. Mark said the disciples didn’t believe the two men. Luke said they did. Mark said the disciples worshipped Jesus, some doubted him, and Jesus told them to go preach. Mark said Jesus reprimanded them and told them to preach. Luke said Christ disappeared, reappeared out of thin air, reprimanded them and they all ate dinner. John said Jesus walked through a door, the disciples were happy, and Jesus blessed them. Mark and Luke said Jesus was only on Earth on that Sunday. John said He was on Earth for eight days. Acts says that He was on Earth for at least 40 days. Matthew doesn’t mention the ascension. Mark said it happened in or near Jerusalem, after supper. Luke said in Bethany, close to Jerusalem, after supper. John and Paul don’t mention an ascension. Acts says He ascended from the Mount of Olives. There ya go!
Good. I already know some of the apologetic answers. But, it should be fun to watch this thread. Two of my favorite "INCONSISTENCIES" in the Bible are: ACTS 9:7 "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man." compared with ACT 22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me." and KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen. compared with CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
How many chariot horses did Solomon have, 40,000 (I Kings 4:26) or 4,000 (II Chron. 9:25)? I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen." II Chron. 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen;" Explanation of supposed contradiction: Read the verses carefully and you will see that there is no contradiction. They had chariot teams with ten horses and ten men per chariot in case you got a flat tire! If he had "four thousand stalls for horses and chariots" he would need fourty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots. Many modern versions of the Bible try to "fix" what they thought was a mistake and actually created an error. thats why I like history I can make anything work out the way the way I want it! I ganked that off of some creation science site lol. I just wanted to show how easy history can be bent
You call this a disrepancy? I'm ashamed to be associated with the person who called this a disrepancy. It is still dark in the early morning. Now to oldenize it ... It is yet dark in the early morning.
My main concern is the fact that they belive most of that is a contridiction and do not take in to consideriton two thigns A)They could all be correct because thats what the one person reported B)None of them say "ONLY mary and so and so was there" they never give much to make you belive that it was only those people there
Unfortunately, the contradictions posted (save the idiotic first one) do not just "say different things," they say things which are contradictory. I read the whole list, and only the first one made any sense.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bible is "the absolute authority." This is why it is held in such high regard. Am I not right?
I meant Mark, Luke, John, and Matthew never calimed that what they saw was the whole picture, like group of people who report the same event your going to get certin pecies from diffrent people. Its still the same event and they don't controdict each other just becasue each person list diffrent things they see. You can either look at it as a contridiction or getting the whole picture. Since no one alive was there we'll really never know!
So let's see ~ there's either 28,000 horses looking for a rider , or 8,000 riders looking for a horse. I say nay!
Sorry... perhaps I should've been more specific, or listed the verses for themselves, but I'm busier than I anticipated right now and am short on time. Matthew simply says it's dawn, and Luke says that it's very early in the morning. These aren't too specific. However, Mark says, "very early on the first day of the week, after sunrise" and John says, "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark".
^that's right. Plus, what about all the other discrepancies? Anyone going to talk about them or are we just going to bicker about the light levels at dawn?
When, how, what, who, where accurecy really has nothing to do with the way I'm supposed to live, the bible coudl be 100% correct or not but one thing is for sure. Christ gave me an example, and I plan on living by it . Its such a shame people get so caught up in PROVING their religion that they never LIVE thier religon...And religion is such a nasty word! My belife isn't a religion its a spiritual that sounds better.!
I think you've touched upon apologetic argument numero uno! I personally don't have too much against this argument, but it still seems a little weak to me. I mean, these gospels were the first of the New Testament, put down on paper to help convert people. The single most important event in Christianity is the resurrection, and John says that Mary Magdalene was the first person at the tomb. If other people were there with her, why wouldn't they be included in John? To leave more of the first witnesses at the tomb out makes the story more unbelievable, at least as I see it. One person seeing two angels (or one angel, or one guy, or two guys) isn't as easy to believe as a group of women seem them (er him). Anyways, even conceding that point, problems still pop up. Jesus' first appearance, for one... Galilee and Jerusalem are 160 miles apart. Either someone got the location he first appeared at wrong, or Jesus managed to travel an awefully long ways over the course of a day. Basically, it's not harmonizing one of the details that makes this a challenge, imo... it's harmonizing all of it. Now, if you're talking about details changing like in the game of telephone... well that's fine and dandy and I've absolutely no problem with that, but alot of Christians believe the Bible to be the infallible, inspired, inerrant word of God, and I think the challenge is a little more difficult to resolve from that respect.
yeah, to be honest with you I could careless how "accurate" it was, I'm more worried about what jesus taught, how he lived, and how i should live. Me beliving/proving the bible 100% won't get into heaven IMHO,Like I said more people wanna prove it then live it!
