Politics - Earth vs. War

How is it unfair? Give me an example of an event in history where the American public wasn't putting pressure on the government and something was really in their face.

 

Yes, America attacked Afganistan so they could lay an oil pipeline out of the country that wouldn't have been possible under the previous regime, it was nothing to do with 9-11, and I think it's very debateable who caused/allowed the 9-11 attacks. The whitehouse and co. have a lot of questions unanswered and many facts swept under the carpet... America has been finding excuses to go to war for decades, terrorism is just the latest.

And as for denial, that is stupidity or fear of acceptance... eitherway it makes little difference to the outcome so it's hardly worth picking up on, unless of course your trying to build-up your own argument by finding a sceond point to comment upon.

 

I don't dispute that America likes to find excuses to start wars...

HOWEVER...I also don't think you can use conspiracy theories as arguements.

 

That's why people should be upset about it! If we are paying for it, we need to get out there and put pressure on the government to pull the troops out, if, in fact, the majority of the public disagrees with the war. It all comes down to public pressure. If there is enough pressure on any issue, the government has no choice but to address it.

 

Conspiracy theories gain a lot of weight when the evidence presented is ignored by the government in question... as for evidence?? there was no evidence produced for the attacks on Afghanistan, there was no evidence before or after the Iraq war, and America seems happy to go against any treaties or decisions made by any world authority be it NATO the UN or any environmental treaty.. evidence simply doesn't come in to it. If anyone suffers from conspiracy theories I think it's the American government itself.

 

Which treaty? The Kyoto Protocal? You said TREATIES...which ones are you referring to?

 

Yes.. well, I can't see where we are really arguing about anything at this point as I agree to an extent, but I have very little faith in lobbying governments for change... the vast majority of Britain was against going to war with iraq, there was protests and massive demonstrations, debates
on television and it was obvious the people of Britain as in many other countries if not all, were against war... but the option wasn't put to the people to decide, no referendum/official vote allowed, The prime minister quite simply chose to ignore the opinions of the people.... there is so much more corruption going on behind the scenes than anyone will admit. Sometimes things are obvious, you can feel it, you can smell it... but to prove it?? well that depends on the power and the ability of the regime to cover it's tracks.

I might add that all the major parties on this country would have behaved in an almost identical manner so simply voting the government out would have no effect... there is not a democracy on this planet, it does not exist.

 

Why do you need specific ones? Pretty much any that matter, the Iraq war was illegal from the start as it was decided by the UN that war was not justified yet America went to war all the same, ... I am not sure why I have to state to you everything the government has backed out of since Bush came to power... I don't have the time to start making an argument they lays such detail as this forum doesn't get enough reading to warrant it... but surely you are aware that every-time something like world debt or environmental issues are on the table America avoids them like the plague and will only accept things in the most minor of ways when placed under the greatest of pressure.

 

It does matter, actually, I'd like specific ones because I dont think you really know what you're talking about when you're discussing environmental issues.

 

I just thought of another thing.......besides the obvious fucked up shit that war causes, modern war is very harsh, by this I mean the weapons and such are so unnatural to what war used to be in ancient times.....ugh it's so fucked up.....sometimes I don't think our leaders can see the direct link between war and the environment. Every bomb we drop, every building we destroy, it's decfacing the planet.....but somehow it's supposed to "protect" us from shit we started.

 

No worries. I had thought you could have meant that but I deemed Earth Raper to be something said after her well articulated points had been shot down.

What I really wanted to type to you was 'I love you'. But alas shyness had its way with me.

 

incense+peppermints, you're amazing!

 

Lets not read to much into it eh !! just a joke after all :&

I thought a smouldering passion for me was developing... don't be shy.

 

How can he persoanly profit.. don't you think it is a bit ridiculous... ?

Aside from the law http://www.usoge.gov/pages/laws_regs_fedreg_stats/other_ethics_guidance.html we i assume you think he side steps.. Oil is a commodity that fluctuates wars or no wars... I'ts almost like saying Bush creates global weather..so that his stock goes up... Come on 2+2=4 not 5.

So you don't wish for the Iraqi goverment to sell oil then ??.

 

we could live with or without iraq or anyone else selling oil. the only real war is the totaly gratuitous one of political expediency against international law.
stratigic control of world oil reserves is a stepping stone to right wing planetary dictatorship, which the republican national convention that renominated bush unambiguously spelled out as their bald faced intent.

as for bush, i'm not convinced he deserves credit for being anything other then corruption's voluntary poster boy. it's rumsfield who'se been running things for years, playing various sides against each other to create the situations and conditions that enable pseudoconcervatism to exploit.
rumsfield and uber illuminati carl rove. their buddy cheney allong for the greed and ken lay who got caught, as sooner or latter they all will, one way or another.

no one outside of their inner circle is really bennifiting, not even other long time conservatives, many in their own way just as rotten and just as willing to do what this bunch has, just not getting their cut and starting to whine about having been left out in the cold and shafted by these they've supported and helped to put in power.

which certainly looks like a dumb thing for the rumsfield possie to have done.

without their continued support cracks are begining to appear in their 'unassailable' facade.

but to say anything is more important to the kind of conditions we all have to experience and live under then the well being of natural cycles of renewal all life, including our own, on our planet utterly depends upon is utterly absurd.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Why thank you

 

Well you may have to have a few words with a few Alaskans..

Oh ''this war is illegal'' http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6917.htm

Personaly i think it was legal.. reading the POV of someone who knows about law

Lord Goldsmith's nine-paragraph written answer to Parliament on 17 March raised no such doubts, stating: "Authority to use force against Iraq exists" from previous UN resolutions. ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4492439.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/issues/4492443.stm


but like kofi annan once said ''if you wish''... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661640.stm

It depends on you POV at the end of the day.. neither of our POVs kind work if i think it was illegal and you think it was legal.. so no suprises all round i guess ??... we may have to agree to disagree

OPEC have strategic control of oil reserves...

You might need to refresh my memory.. have you anything i can read about this ?...thats not sarcasm by the way..

We're talking about things like clearances for people to move through countries and do things in different countries. We're talking about all kinds of various other relationships that those countries have to countries that sponsor terrorism or to entities that sponsor terrorism.

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t09202001_t920ruma.html

Rumsfeld double speak for rendition and torture i am sure >>>

I don't get what you mean ????

 

Exactly, what could possibly be more important than preserving the Earth, I mean come on government, you couldn't kill people and loot there countries without a planet to do it on.