Hello people! I've complained about heterosexist language and jokes in another forum, and the admins seem more than willing to change things. But I'm not sure exactly which jokes are heterosexist (I don't know them till I see them), and just saying I'm offended would not be a good idea. Someone recently said: Hey brunch, you like playing with meat, right? *hides* This offended me, but I'm not sure what to say, and I can't go back to that forum until I can present an intelligent argument. I know the only reason the joke is funny to some people is because gays are generally considered inferior, and the fact that the person who said it "hid" indicates they knew or suspected I wouldn't like it. Can you tell me which jokes are anti-gay and why? I know it's a lot to ask, but I haven't been able to find the information anywhere. Thanks! Edit: Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that many people on the forum know I'm gay, cuz someone asked and I posted it. Still, I've only directly spoken about it with the admins, and no one else has brought it up.
Well brunch, that's a difficult question. What I find insulting may be different than what you do, and it all depends on the people. There are no hard and fast rules. The main thing is what somebody's intention is. Did they mean to hurt you or anger you or shame you, if that's the case the words they use don't really matter. Besides the obvious derogatory remarks, you run the risk of sounding too sensitive when you complain. The quote you gave doesn't seem insulting to me by itself. But you might have felt embarrassed. In that case ignore it and move on, or say to the person that you don't like what they had to say, it embarrassed you. You don't need to explain it any further and you don't need to shame them and say "and your an ass for saying it" They might have been trying to give a friendly joke. If someone said to me, Hey Mychal, you like playing with meat, right? I would reply something like, "I like to do more than play with it, what did you have in mind?" or "That depends on the meat. For instance, your vienna sausage is a little small for me, so I think I'll pass, but thanks for the offer." Once you're out to somebody, you're out, you're ,you're out. And you can't go back in the closet. Thems the rules. Try to make the best of the situation.
If the point of the joke is that there's something wrong with being gay, it's an anti-gay joke. If the thing that makes someone laugh at the joke is anti-gay feelings, it's an anti-gay joke. I wonder if the line about playing with meat has something to do with the name "brunch." It's not a particularly funny joke. The word "heterosexist" throws me here. I draw a line between "heterosexist" and "homophobic." I really don't like the word "homophobic" because it can be misleading, but it is usually used to refer to people and attitudes that are very negative toward lesbians, gay men and bisexuals. Because of that "-phobia" ending, people take it to mean just a fear of lesbians, gay men and bisexuals. Fear may or may not be present in homophobia. I prefer the word "homonegativity" to "homophobia." I use "heterosexist" to refer to people and attitudes that see lesbians, gay men and bisexuals in an unrealistically heterosexual way. The ultimate example is people who ask a member of a same-sex couple which one is the man and which one is the woman.
Thanks for the replies! You're right. But what if the people laughing at the joke only have very slight anti-gay feelings that most if not all people have? What if the joke was only founded on anti-gay feelings? You see, I'm not exactly sure what makes the above joke funny. A guy said he was once a butcher, and another guy made that joke. I told him I really didn't appreciate it and explained why (as best I could). He said he was really sorry, he thought the joke would appeal to me. He was telling the truth, and we've agreed (since we're both moderators) to filter out all sexist and heterosexist language and jokes. I've emailed a few professors about this issue, and I'm planning on writing a comprehensive list of what is and what isn't sexist/heterosexist and why (which I'll post in that forum). Before, I was absolutely certain there was something wrong with that joke. Now I fear I might be taking offense at nothing. Thanks again for your help!
Actually, in that context, I think the joke is funny to me, if it was a well meaning jibe. It's a pun. Meat as a double entendre. Sure, somebody else might think it was a negative remark. But all that should matter is the person who said it and you, the person he was saying it to or about. You know there are people who hate GLBT so much and it doesn't matter what you say and they will twist it into some sort of anti gay attitude. That's just them. You gotta let some things roll off your back or you'll go crazy with this. Friends kid each other. Sometimes that kidding is connected to a fear or something they don't like about you or sometimes it's just pointing out what's different. Perhaps the dude who said it is a tiny bit homophobic, he may be uncomfortable around GLBT, so he's going to say a few untoward remarks because he doesn't know any better. Be kind to him, otherwise he will grow bitterness instead of understanding. A list seems a bit damning and condemning. It might attract the wrong attention from the wrong people and the right people might feel offended when they shouldn't be. If someone doesn't know that names like "spear chucker" and "ass pirate" are offensive and don't belong in a forum, then a list isn't going to help that person. And someone who is well meaning but ignorant will only need a gentle reminder. As a moderator of any forum, you want to do the right thing, but you should only reprimand when absolutely necessary.
Etymologically, the word homophobic makes very little sense. So I figure any word is as good as any other, really. Faggophobia?
I have never heard a Polack joke. But I'm aware they exist. Can I have some examples? There's only really one gay joke, it's just one really big one.
A polish guy wins a brand new sports car in a contest. He drives around all the time waving at the rednecks. One day the rednecks stop him, they draw a circle in the dirt and say "If you step out of that circle, we will kick your ass." They pick up hammers and start busting up his new car. They look back and the is smiling. They hit the car some more, and he is laughing. They walk over to him and ask "Why are you laughing, we just busted up your car." He says "I know, but I stepped out of the circle 9 times
Did you hear in the news that a 747 recently crashed in a cemetery in Poland? The Polish officials have so far retrieved 2000 bodies.
