The Left, The Right, The Wrong, The Right

Why does it seem that all the media portrays about Iraq is violence and bloodshed? Is it possible that that's all that is really going on over there? Of course not. Has anyone here every talked to returned soldiers? I'm sure that some have negative stories to tell and a negative opinion on the war, but really, damned near every soldier that you talk to says the same thing....."The world doesn't really know what is going on over there." So if all this good stuff is happening (rebuilding school, many small businesses starting, freedoms never experienced before), if all this and more is happening, then why isn't anybody talking about it?? Is it possible that it isn't happening? Probably not. Is it possible that because Bush took us to war that any result of the war must be negative?? Could be.
My point of this thread wasn't to instigate anything. I really don't care about Bush, Kerry, democrat, republican, nazi, commie, Michael Moore, flip-flop, John Edwards, Clinton, White House, Cheney, Halliburton, Carlisle, neo-cons, cohorts, cronies, warmogoring, WMD, Al-Qaeda, etc....... This thread isn't and should not be about that. It isn't even really about protesting, but it should be.
My question is that, why is it that most of us on the left cannot admit that there are many good things being accomplished in Iraq?? Are people that politically biased that they actually believe that there is nothing but mayhem going on?? Sure, we were brought to war on false pretenses, there are many civilian casualties, U.S. soldiers did commit crimes during the occupation, corporations linked to the Bush family happened to get reconstruction jobs, sure Iraq holds the worlds #2 oil reserves, but what does this really have to do with what is being accomplished and the great things that our soldiers are currently a part of???
I know I am going to get a lot of responses about the tragedies and all that will do is further support my argument. For every 100 great things that have happened somebody will always find 1 thing that is negative. I don't want to get in a pissing match about the Iraq war, I am just simply stating one small aspect that boggles my mind.

 

I'm sure some good things have happened because of it, but it doesn't change the fact that THEY DON'T WANT US THERE. When helping someone, you should generally find out if they wanted it to begin with.

 

Not only don't they want us there, the whole war was predicated on a LIE.

I don't care what the media presents, all I know is that people are dying for absolutely no reason. And not just our soldiers, but other coalition soldiers, as well as Iraqis themselves.

Nearly 1,000 US soldiers have died, while nearly 15,000 innocent Iraqis have died as a result of this war.

Nothing has changed as a result of this useless, unneeded war. Sure, Saddam is gone. But the situation over there is even worse than when it was lead by Saddam. At least there was some order in the country before we invaded it.

To me, there is nothing good about this war (or any war) under these circumstances. Our president is a liar, and he couldn't give a shit less that people are dying as long as he has the power and wealth he so much craves.

 

Rat, your response was perfect. That is exactly what I am talking about. You presume to know what the Iraqis want, from what, actually being there or from watching a minority of people on the news who are resisting the efforts of the coalition? You all seem to follow the same rhetoric, and how can you possibly say they were better off when Saddam was there? And of course, you have to spin this into how this war is illegal and Bush is horrible.

 

Good topic. And believe it or not, most Iraqis think that Iraq is better off now than it was under Saddam. Unfortunately, the fewest people have the loudest voices, and all we see are the terrorists and beheaders on TV, while the average Muhammed is just goinh about life, not causing any problems or making any big scene, but thankful for Saddam to be gone. Sure, they may not want us there now and that's understandable, but at the same time we are a far cry better than Saddam.

 

Hold on now.

Don't think I am some tree-hugging pacifist just because I don't agree with Bush and his bogus war.

I am not following any rhetoric either. You're thinking about 80% of the people on this site; not me.

I never said war is "illegal." Lying to start a war is indeed illegal, though. Or it should be.

Yes, some Iraqis do support the US' role in Iraq. Most of them are the Iraqis that are currently living here, who don't have to live amidst the chaos that has arisen as a result of our actions.

Many Iraqis did support our initial plan to get rid of Saddam. But a lot has changed since then, too.

Think about it, would you want to wake up someday and find that your country is under some other country's rule? A country that knows nothing about your culture or religion? A country whose only real goal is to achieve their own political and monetary gain?

 

Like I said in my original post, I don't want to hear about why we went to war and who took us there in this thread. The only thing I want to know is why people refuse to admit that there are more good things being done that bad. Now I have personally not been to Iraq and cannot account for anything first-hand, but, I have talked to several soldiers that have been there and what they say is that the majority of the world does not know what is going on. I will ask again, why is this information not getting out and why are there some that refuse to believe it?


**Again, I do not want to hear anything about Bush or why we went to war!!**

 

Because bad news sells better than good news. People don't want to hear about a hospital being built, they want to hear about a hosptal being destroyed by terrorists. It's that simple.

 

Oh so true!! It doesn't matter how many good things are being done, even if there are 100 million good things to 10 bad things. Everyone will always shed light on the 10 bad things. Yes, the news is biased. VERY BIASED. That is why, if I'm ever a journalist (which I hope to be) then I will strive to present both sides if I can and disreguard my own opinion.

And Silky, I'm glad you started this thread. After I read your first post, I was going "AMEN DUDE!!!" Seriously, whoever thinks that the Iraqis don't appreciate us has probably watched a biased news broadcast or something. They are so thankful. And whoever said that it is worse off the when Sadaam was there is just nuts!! They appreciate our help. Broaden your horizons, look for information... don't just rely on what other people say.

And this applys to individul life as well... no matter how many good things you do, people will always remember and talk about the bad. Just like the war.

 

however the war was started by us, well, the US, we're there now and there's a whole lot to deal with. if we just up and leave now, things will go from horrific to hellish. we owe the people there, the ones who've lost their families, everything that we're giving them, and then we owe it to them to get OUT. 15k people is a lot less than saddam was killing, a lot less than die here by the hands of our own citizens, but it's still 15k that we're directly responsible for. i wanna hear about the good stuff, sure. i wanna know we're doing something to make up for the lies and deceit.

 

A lot of soldiers who return aren't fully discharged from the army, so they HAVE to give the army a good name or else they can get in a lot of trouble.

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Dan, the people I've talked to, my FRIENDS, are not obligated to lie to me in the name of the government. They have no reason to lie to me and from what they've told me, which seems to be the general concensus of the military, we in America do not see the whole picture.


I understand that the media is selling fear and suspense to keep their viewers. I mean I could only listen to "Oh, we've just built another school" or "My income has multiplied my hundreds, now I can afford..............." so much before I wouldn't want to hear about it anymore. But if I turn on the news and I see "Iraqi government officials being targeted by assassins, stay tuned!!!!" I probably wouldn't change the channel right away, I would want to see what is going on. That is not what I'm talking about though. It seems that there are some that would absolutely not admit that there is any good going on, or the Iraqi people are any better off, even if their life depended on it. We've heard them talk back and forth about the lies and scandals, but that's all it ever is, negative. For once I would like to hear something positive come out of their mouth.

 

Watch the O' Reilly Factor, he is constantly supporting the war and kissing Bush's Ass, as you seem to have a big interest in.

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Dan, this isn't about supporting the war, kissing Bush's ass, righty O'Reilly, or any other conservative. This is about seeing both sides of reality. You obviously do not.

 

I think that when most of us complain about media bias it is more about the support for the Bush administration and policies. Stations like Fox will often have a republican speaker who is for the Bush administration, but with no counter argument from anyone else. Often those men bash liberals and liberal values openly with no liberal on to defend his viewpoint, or himself. I see it every day whe flipping through the news channels, mainly coming from FOX.

It is pretty well undrestood that if these news stations don't show soem attention grabbing violence or scandal they wont get ratings. Doesn't mean they aren't bias on the side of the administration at the same time.

 

Iraqi people happy we are there?

riiiiiiiiight.
Nothing makes me happy like random missle fire and lots of dead relatives.

 

Thank you all for reinforcing my accusations of narrowmindedness.

 

The reason you cannot hear what is good going on over there because basically there isn't anything good going on. According to media outlets other than the american one's the people are suffering and don't understand what has happened to their country. The people were happy with the toppling of saddam hussein. That didn't mean they looked at the americans as heroes and liberators. The Iraqi people had more normal lives than they do now. According to interviews I've heard from university professors (CBC.ca) from Iraq very few are attending their courses and 80% of the population is out of work. I live in canada and if a well meaning "friend" came to help my country, picked my government and walked my streets with assault rifles I would be pretty pissed off as well. I'm sure my american friends would be too. The US destroyed that countries infastructure and social system, you do that to any country and it will fall to disorder. Women have to wear veils now and sexual assaults have skyrocketed. This was not a country of radical religious fanatics who lived in tents in the desert, Iraq was the most progreesive moslem country in the middle east until the sanctions after the gulf war. I'm not going to tell you about civilian deaths and atrocities watch Chicken Noodle News for that. As for the soldiers coming over saying we don't understand whats really happening. Who knows what their superiors have told them to say or what they believe people over here think of them.

oh yeah also I don't agree with governments that commit atrocities ie Hussein but if the US is going to stop all those governments that means invading and attacking more sovereign nations, last time I looked that's what hussein did to kuwait and the world condemned them.

 

Trout, why would you even resond with a comment like that? I'm not saying that some horrible horrible shit has happened there, I am saying that people like you refuse to admit that good shit has happened.

BTW, way to over-analyze my post with the 1 out of 100 bit. Do you think that I actually referred to that as a proven statistic or do you think I pulled that out of my ass to make a point??