Crazy thought on weed and god

ok I was thinking, what if, marijuana was the plant that Adam and Eve ate in the guarden of eden?! I mean we all know that weed opens your mind and eyes up to things that you never realized before. And Adam and Eve both ate the plant and then they realized they were naked and that it was "wrong" to be naked in front of another person so they hid... crazy thought...

 

Dude, what the fuck?

 

You can't just eat the plant and trip. It has to be activated by heat.

I'll spare you of my personal [anti]religious beliefs.

 

plus, if im not mistaken, only eve at the fruit (i think it was an apple anyway)
I might be wrong though

 

yea u can munch weed

 

Dude, your on something... Everybody knows Adam and Eve ate magic mushrooms... Thats what pissed off god.. they got into her stash.


peace.

 

well weed has seeds and doesnt that make it a fruit.. haha

 

i must not be high enough...


(but i will be in an hour or so)

 

OP, your fucked up man, Adam and Eve both ate the fruit, eve did first the adam did. It wasnt weed, Weed none the less is a drug, and has no where to put into the bible or into religous thoughts.

 

what the bible tells us is a lie, we dont know our real religion, so dont worry about it. Thats my opinino anyways.

 

adam and eve were said to eat a fruit of a tree, so no, it wasn't mushrooms and most likely was not weed.

its not that crazy.....OR that original. or worth spending much time thinking about seeing as the story of adam and eve is fundamentally flawed and obviously completely fictional (look at cain's reaction when god tells him what to do after having killed his brother. think about it for a minute. now: where did the other people that he's worried about come from?)

as for "drugs" having no place in theology, i'd disagree and so would many other people, particularly when it comes to psychedelics rather than weed. many people speculate that ingestion of mushrooms actually sparked the first new ideas that led to modern religious thinking. after all, animals exhibit no religious tendencies, and humans are animals. some of the earliest known rock paintings show shamans running through fields of cows and mushrooms with geometric designs in the air, and show pictures of humans with mushrooms growing out of their bodies. magic mushrooms are plentiful, would be easily identified once discovered, and would reliably provide access to "divine" experiences. as to whether or not you believe these effects actually ARE divine is moot. what IS important is the possibility that in the minds of primitive humans, they very easily could have been interpreted in ways that we would today describe as being mystical or religious in nature, and would easily have paved the way for religious types of thinking. once such ideas are established they are able to evolve on their own, independent of further drug use in many cases (but not all)

even today drugs play a prominent role in many indigenous religions, such as the peyote churches of native americans, the iboga cults of africa, and the fly agaric consuming cultures of siberia.

all modern religions have developed from earlier faiths and borrowed from their legends, traditions, and so on. most of christianity is NOT unique to christianity. it is foolish to say the least to claim that drugs have no place in religion - its entirely possible (even likely) that religion itself was founded on drugs, that if you go back through the unwritten lists of religions come and gone over the millenia you will eventually find the earliest religions, on which all others owe their existence, were based on drug experiences.

religion is a means to communicate the relation between the divine and the ordinary. ordinarily there is no "evidence" of god or god's behavior. it would take extraordinary events or mindsets to even develop an idea of gods or anything else supernatural. it is entirely possible that the first mystical experiences were due to "holy men" accidentally or intentionally eating mushrooms or other natural psychedelics. its not likely to be cannabis, but who knows.

but the adam and eve story is not true. period. they could not at once be the first people from which everyone is descended and also live in a land inhabited by other people, and they could not populate the world with only two sons. so it is either made up just because, or its not meant to be taken literally. cannabis flowers could not be mistaken as a fruit, it would be described as an herb if it were to be identified in scripture. so theres really no need to speculate too much on the possibility of them eating cannabis and suddenly learning what is right and what is wrong. it wouldnt happen like that, anyway. do you have a better sense of morals since you've started smoking? its no more enlightening than alcohol - just safer and more enjoyable in my opinion.


anyway, kudos for at least thinking outside "the box." its just that the idea is unfortunately flawed from both a historical and theological perspective.

 

well, thanks? it was just an idea

 

definitely not trying to tear you down, its an idea and its good that you had a generally thought-provoking idea (possibly) independent of any suggestion towards that. however if you post it here, its assumed you post it for the sake of generating discussion. not everyone will agree with your idea. i dont. thats why i posted what i did - to point out things you likely overlooked. that doesnt mean i'm right or that you have to agree with me. def. not trying to hurt your feelings or anything lol.....

again, its good to be thinking for yourself. keep it up, dont let anyone discourage you. however, in MY opinion, and to the best of MY knowledge, you're wrong - THIS time. its nothing.

my post is not specifically directed at you or your idea, either. its a general response to (in general) your post as well as all the previous replies to it. just my take on the situation. in fact, though, the bulk of my post was directed in spirit as a response to "smokindude."

 

Yeah I think shrooms would fit more properly. But then again, it's a shitty bed-time story to begin with Come on, a rib? Gotta be more creative than that.. how about eve sprang from the testicle of adam's 1st cousin once removed?

I'd make a great prophet.

 

yea nesta, no offense taken. we're both just expressing opinions.

 

I tend to disagree... I think weed is much more enlightening... heightened senses instead of dulled ones, and plus given that weed is natural it's more likely to have come from a higher power(if you believe in that sort of thing, which is what this topic concerns anyway). Just my opinion though.

 

I love that saying.

 

iboga makes more sense than weed

http://www.erowid.org/plants/iboga/iboga.shtml

and weed dosent have fruit (unless you consider the flowers {buds} fruit)

and a funnything about the story of adam and eve is if you read it adam was right next to her when she ate it and didnt say a thing.

 

i dont think either of our prior statements really give the whole picture. marijuana's effects, while comparable in many ways to alcohol in some superficial regards, are still very distinctively unique. for most users it's just fun and recreation, and they give in to short attention spans and rapid, scattered thoughts. however, marijuana can also leave you very clearminded. it depends sometimes on dose or type of marijuana, but it in a very large way depends also on the individual. some people just are never clearminded or even really coherent when they're stoned. others can focus their energy more positively to the present moment, and can maintain a very lucid, even meditative mental state instead. this is not at all uncommon, but it's not usually discussed in such terms. what is probably a bit less common would be people actually obtaining spiritual benefits from the drug itself. it really has little to no value in and of itself. what i mean by that is that it has the potential, if you use it properly, to aid in a calm, meditative or contemplative existance. however, like any tool, it can be wielded improperly. marijuana sort of yields to your will a bit. its like there's this energy in you and you can direct it in various ways....but some people don't do this and just let it overwhelm their minds and bodies...they feel really good, but they're just sitting there in a stupor, basically. this isn't necessarily a "wrong" way to experience your marijuana, some are more prone to it than others and almost everyone experiences the different "types of highs" at different times. however, you can sort of work towards having a clearminded, meditative state after smoking nearly every time, if you really care to try. those few that can manage to do so regularly, and as the norm...perhaps they can claim (accurately) that marijuana has HELPED their spiritual development, but it cannot offer much of anything that cannot be obtained through diligent meditation or other spiritual practices anyway. and due to marijuana's ability to induce a more lazy and happy-go-lucky ADHD mind as well as a calm and collected mind, it may even hinder some people's "enlightenment" to some degree.

i suppose its not fair to deny that marijuana CAN offer a positive, enlightening effect (such as to users who simply use it to inwardly focus themselves, or people who use it religiously, or people who use it to assist in genuine meditation) but it most often does not (your run of the mill average stoner)


a lot of it, even most of it, really depends on the individual, so its really not fair either to credit marijuana itself for being enlightening, but then its also therefore not fair to blame it for making people lazy, forgetful, or scatterbrained. either outcome is possible, and more than just those, but its essentially all because of other factors...basically who the person is, their intents, their preexisting mental and spiritual inclinations.....

marijuana isn't good or bad.

now really the marijuana being natural argument really doesn't hold up here. we have historical evidence that very early peoples ate mushrooms in an early, possibly very primitive, spiritual practice. they are every bit as natural as marijuana. while marijuana mimicks to some degree the effects of anandamide, the THC-like neurotransmitter, psilocin and psilocybin are chemically related to, and work in similar ways to, such neurotransmitters as seratonin and DMT. seratonin is one of the most important neurotransmitters and controls any number of aspects of mental life. Psilocin and psilocybin are very, very closely related to DMT. psilocin is, in fact 4-HO-DMT.

DMT happens to be among the most powerful psychedelics known to human beings, and is capable of essentially spiriting you away to completely different worlds filled with alien machinery and inhabited by strange, bizarre entities....needless to say it can produce extraordinarily "spiritual" experiences, or it can produce extraordinarily frightening experiences. sometimes the two are the same. it is also a neurotransmitter found in each and every one of our brains. it is speculated to exist in its highest quantities at birth and at death, and at certain extreme situations in certain people's lives, and be the backbone for the spiritual thinking of most cultures of the earth. it is possible that people who literally believe they have had mystical face to face experiences with the divine, or seen visions, have had these experience as a result of somehow experiencing a larger than normal output of DMT into the brain. the somewhat psychedelic experiences reported of people in very deep meditative states resembles that of DMT and some other psychedelics related to it. it's also possible that some "prophets" have been people who did not attempt to (known to them or not the chemistry of it) alter their DMT levels manually, but there was something "wrong" with their brain that at certain times overwhelmed them with a psychedelic dosage of endogenous DMT. it could also be the cause of the spiritual experiences and visions of people who have near death experiences, and other odd occurances in people who undergo traumatic experiences. it is possible that this whole time, unbeknownst to us, our spiritual experiences have been based on...well...DMT trips. does that make out spiritual traditions, practices and beliefs any less credible or important to our development as people? of course not.

now psilocin and DMT are VERY closely related. psilocin is, in fact, 4-HO-DMT.

DMT:
4-HO-DMT:


DMT may be the hidden backbone of the spiritual beliefs of many of our past prophets and teachers to different ends, but psilocin and psilocybin, chemicals readily available from nature, very closely resemble multiple neurotransmitters and is known to alter seratonin levels significantly. in the dosages that would be taken by people for spiritual visions would be significantly stronger than the half eighths and eighths of Psilocybe cubensis most of you take when you trip. they would be far more "out there" and fare more prone to being spiritual in nature, and would far more resemble a DMT/religious experience.

i think that mushrooms must have had some major role in our religious development as a species. not only because it's effects mimick those of DMT which occurs naturally in us and may be the cause of/facilitator to most genuine spiritual experiences, but because it's very readily available in nature, because it affects us in a much more profound, moving, and empathogenic and psychedelic manner than marijuana. it is related to and alters the levels of some very, very important chemicals in the brain, whereas THC is somewhat like a single, unusual neurotransmitter thats only recently been discovered.

i think cannabis has the potential to offer some spiritual benefits, but i think mushrooms have that capacity as well, and when mushrooms work to that end it is at a much more profound degree than cannabis, and in the minds of earlier humans they were much more likely to take THAT as a spiritual sacrament, an "enlightening" drug.

but still, thats not to say that it always works that way for everyone. it depends on the person a lot. psychedelics can also be misused just like marijuana, and like with every other comparison, the results of psychedelics being misused is greater than with marijuana.

marijuana has certain advantages over psychedelics, but psychedelics have some very strong advantages over marijuana, most notably the profundity of the experience and the CLOSE relation to multiple natural chemicals in our brain. this is why i believe that if any drug has been important at all in our spiritual development as a species, mushrooms must have been among the very most significant.

 

funny thing about iboga, again its not the fruit but rather the root that is consumed. also, its only got a very short history of recorded use, and is not part of the religious ceremonies of any of the traditional indigenous people...it did not become in important religious sacrament until relatively recently, and there is no evidence of it having been used before, unfortunately.

also, it occurs in western africa, and if you're willing to believe something as far out as the story of adam and eve, you have to go all the way and believe what the bible says was it's location.....DEFINITELY not in an area where iboga grows naturally.