Women are losing again...

Obviously, your words and what you actually do are not the same. OR you wouldn't be disagreeing with Libertine on this issue.

 

snobs come in all forms, i think, maggie. i imagine insanejester is just as rude to men he considers beneath him, too. lol. what a life.

 

Because I can think beyond the tip of my own nose, to see that it harms ALL womyn, when ANY womyn is called names like this. I don't judge the world on JUST what happens to me.

As for "Oppression" I could take a week to tell you. Starting in school, when the boys got new books, and the girls had to settle for used ones, and to share. When the limited spaces in the Advanced Learning Classes were reserved for ALL the boys who "qualified" and then, if there was any room, for a few of the girls. To High School, where there were NO funded sports for the girls, and the boys got all they wanted. Also, in High School, ALL the boys in the Junior Year got Driver's Ed, before ANY of the girls got it. Some of the girls NEVER got Driver's Ed in school. I also had myriad jobs where the boys were paid more than I was. When I worked in a record store, the boys, who were hired at the same time as I was, were paid 20 an hour more. When I asked "why" I was just told, with an incredulous look, "They're boys." Evidently, that was all the explaination the manager thought was needed. Also, the boys who couldn't even work the cash register properly, were given keys to the store, made "assistant manager" and given a 40 cent an hour raise, while the girls were still making the $3.10 an hour we were making when we were hired. NO girl was ever made "assistant manager." My best freind, sat at home, while a car sat in her garage, why? Although she had her licsence, her brother, who would not get his license for at least 2 more years was "entitled" to the car. She was not. She was an "A" student, her brother could barely pass. At this time, my mother got divorced, and was told, that "her husband's" credit history was NOT hers (even though she was part of it) she had to start out on her own with NO credit, despite the fact that she had made contributions to the family income, and it's welfare. In those days, wonyn were not entitied to "their husband's" Credit History" if it was good, yet many were considered responsible for it, if it was bad. Made no difference.
When my grandmother was a young womyn, she couldn't even vote. I remember when I was a young womyn, the newspapers were divided into "wanted: Men" and "Wanted:Ladies" "Ladies" were not allowed to apply for jobs "meant for" men, even if they had the education or needed the income. We've only gotten up to 1980, would you like me to go on?


If you REALLY think womyn haven't been oppressed, you probably think neither have blacks or latinos, or anyone else. If you think the Women's Movement wasn't neccesary, you have NO appreciation for history.

READ a few books. The Oppession of Womyn is a well known fact, if you can't see it, you don't WANT to. Nothing myself or anyone else has to say will make the least impression on you. I don't have the time to waste educating you on things you should have learned a long time ago, or could well learn on your own.

*sigh*

 

the same oppression is still there, it's just taken on sneakier forms, it just isn't so in your face. Women still have a lower status in our society, no matter whan anyone has to say contrary to that. Women who work hard to succeed in the "man's world" are seen as heartless bitches and dykes or other negative terms are used to describe them. Men who are sensitive and kind and gentle or show other typically "feminine" traits are called pussies and worthless losers. It's everywhere, literally. If you don't want to see it, you will be blind to it. But once you open your eyes and your mind, you will see that it is really pervasive and affects everything, everywhere, every aspect of our lives.


I think, after reading other recent posts of yours, Insanejester, that you are just yanking our chains. Arguing for the sake of argument. I find it really hard to believe you have such a closed mind on this subject.

 

smart ass, asshole...having been frequently called both, i welcome you to the club. it's all the same. we're all shits, really.

 

jester's "how does it affect you personally" is a good question, but doesn't take into consideration the whole picture.

For instance, the repression of Black people in the South didn't affect my grandfather "personally" (until he got involved in protesting) or the repression of Jews in Nazi Germany didn't affect many Germans "personally".

That's the problem with this kind of thought. It is all about "me". Me, me me...how does it affect ME ???

Sometimes we need to look beyond ME...to see how it affects others. Then, when we pitch into help it not only helps THEM, but ME as well!

 

That's funny, because I coulda swore that in another thread (http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149981 ) you claimed that people shouldn't get all upset over words like "******" and that people give power to the words by reacting to them. That was before you called me a bitch and a **** for thinking words like that (******) are disrespectful and shouldn't be used. Remember you said "******" just means lazy, claiming it wasn't an offensive term as long as the people being called that didn't take offense?

You are full of shit, jester. You are here to be argumentative simply for the sake of argument and nothing else. You have no real point to make.

 

It's trolling. It's immature, and takes away from decent conversation we could be having.

 

disagreement is aggravating. where you are in that disagreement makes all the difference in the world to whether or not you're gonna call it trolling. we all get our turn. but if you disagree with something, you gotta say so. it's why we're here anyway. he hasn't called anyone names so far as i can tell from the scan i did, though he was directly attacked and insulted. (die in a ditch, or somethinglike that.) so i couldn't from my current perspective outside this discussion call it trolling. fruitless? probably. but i'm not gonna be the one to say he's wrong to stand up and state for the record what he thinks. i've been guilty more than once myself.

 

die in a ditch insanejester.

 

You would think that.

Again, all about YOU.

*waves hand dismissively*

 

If women like to be called that, that's their choice. If not, they should break up with their boyfriends until their boyfriends learn to respect them.

That isn't your choice, nor your business.

Edit: this was to the OP.

 

*hugs* Aristartle.
haha...

 

Of course, you are a white man, who doesn't think twice about the benefits being one hands you, some people, like Libertine, can see beyond the tip of thier own noses, and see what things are like on the other side, how it hurts the womyn they love, and how it harms many. Not just those who don't like the words.

As I said, jester, I had only gotten up to 1980. But, I have no reason to go on, despite the fact that there is quite a bit. Nothiing will change you "my world is fine, so fuck eveyone else" attitude, so I am not going to waste my time. Besides, when you ask for people to tell you something and then say things like "Life isn't fair, shut the fuck up and deal with it." Why would anyone want to even address you further. I know I have no reason to.

Libertine made some good points. Jester, your "points" are only showing your lack of sophistcation in matters like these. If you really knew history, if you really knew womyn, maybe if you even talked to a womyn once in a while without worrying if she was beautiful enough for you (per your other thread) then maybe you'll learn something. But, not at the rate you are going. It's is NOT just old men and red necks who perpetuate racial and sexual sterotypes and oppression, it is in the very fabric of our society, and only when someone ONLY sees things from their own backyard, (and, of course, are white, male and basically never been hungry) do they doubt the oppression of others.

 

............


Yeah, we'll get right on that "new" Movement. Great idea.

 

MY question is where are the over 1000 people who view this post dead, in jail, guantanamo base in cuba , they really dont exist etc etc

 

Since when is making a joke "immature?" As for your question, take a history class. Also, I don't know that there is ONE single "plight" of "modern women." Makes no sense.

 

(that "quote" wasn't directed at you.)

Damn, a small number of you guys REALLY know the tricks to the early stages of using Domestic Violence Tactics to attempt to intimidate womyn.ONE of which is to try to get a womyn to SHUT UP by asking her a question, demanding an answer, and then twisting every meaning she had so she won't say anything else. thus giving themsleves a false sense of "control." That shit doesn't work on any womyn with a modicum of self respect left or knowlege of the workings of misogynist thought processes. That includes most of the womyn on this forum.

Libertine's Original Post was inspiring. The attempt to eradicate what he said, with tired, "Girls already have all they want" and "prove to me things are hard for you" rheroric is just boring and old, and sad.

Those who forget (or don't know) the past, are destined to repeat it.

 

This thread will get back on track, with comments on Libertine's Original Post.

All silliness aside, please.

 

Wow, this thread got off track. Anyways...

You don't think the first paragraph is directly related to last? Would not prostitution, pornography, women in bikini's in commercials aimed at men, and belittling language in art and music and all aspects of our lives all have to be outlawed in order to prevent objectification? I mean, we'd have to get rid of freedom of speech, the pursuit of happiness, and capitalism in general to prevent it....

We can educate people in healthy and balanced relationships, as well as promote/support those that don't do the things you brought up, especially more so than we're doing today. Hell, a little psychotherapy to a good portion of those in the love and sex forum could go an awfully long way, imo... haha

I applaud your personal morals, and even share them, but I don't think anyone can prevent another person from wanting (pardon the cliche) a "trophy" as long as there's someone out there perfectly willing to fill that role. When they find their life lacking and seek to understand why, perhaps we can help them figure it out, they can teach others and things will get better... if that's not what's already happening. Surely it's going to take time for society to catch up, though. Some people are a little behind the times or blind to what's around them, as this thread indicates.

There were advanced thinkers in the sixties moving mountains, just as (I believe) there are advanced thinkers now. I enjoy most of your threads, and am curious, what do you think should be done about it?