Debate: christianity and the bible

great idea, here's a redirect.

 

Well...I read an article from Billy Graham once where he stated he believed Christ would return in his lifetime. It was in Decision so I don't think he was misrepresented. I do not think it is uncommon for people to hope for that, and obviously Christ's faith is that if you 'believe' the mountain has to throw itself into the sea it (the moutain) has no choice in the matter.

Anyway, JD4U a question? Can you accept and follow Jesus regardless of the absolute validity of the scrtipural collection comprising the bible? And I don't mean to say 'validity', but rather the conservative creationism that takes it as completely literal.

 

I'll start:

If God does not do what He says according to the Bible? Would the Bible be true?

 

The Bible plays a major part in the foundation of my faith. If an error was found in it, I would shy away from the Bible and God. But I believe the Bible is a flawless book as God wrote it using men. Many people believe that there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible, but when you actually read in context and study the supposed "contradictions" in reality it is lack on knowledge on their part. The Bible is a special revelation God gave to us to guide us on how to live our lives... I plan to use His thinking rather than my own.


There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.

 

MeMiles...Good move. This discussion has definitely moved away from the nasty range well into the intelligent one.

I really don't have much else to add...other than to state the personal opinion that if any scripture...Bible, Hindu scripture, Muslim scripture, whatever...is not 100% accurate, or is even only 50% accurate, it's still not a reason to lose or discard faith...I mean the basic idea, which is that a transcendental, spiritual dimension and a supreme being exist and that mankind has an intrinsic relationship with these, is very clearly expressed in all of them.

 

dude I just think you are unintelligent. Please don't be offended...I just can't have a conversation or debate with you.

the other thread is redundant...interesting that its the bible thumping christians who have responded there since the redirect...hmmmm

 

Some people have more faith in the bible than they do in God.

 

So true...


What one get's from the bible is all about interpretation. Over the centuries people have interpreted the bible to mean practically whatever they want. The problem is that people make up their minds, and then look for scripture that supports it. The people who see their bible as literal and inerrant will never find or accept a contridiction and find any answers they want, and the people who want to disprove biblical inerrancy will find multitudes of contradictions. Those wanting to take a liberal view of the bible will find it supports that as well. Those wanting to take a very conservative view of the bible will have plenty in there for them also. What it comes down to, it seems in most cases, is not what the bible says - but what any one person wants it to say.

 

It would be 100% true in that it pertains solely to God and has information on how to have a relationship with God and Jesus Christ and lead a Godly, spiritually conscious and aware life. These are principles that are proven to work, whether every prophecy comes true or not. Isn't that enough?

 

Some say they have faith in God, yet do not believe what he actually says... What kind of faith is that?

 

I did not feel that it was that crucial to change... as long as poeple are having solid talk... but whatever I don't mind.


MeMilesAway.... IS JESUS THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION?

 

I would agree with that. Infact, I would live the life that was presented in the Bible even if I did not believe it was inspired by God. Yet most people do not buy that... So we go a step further and say hey, "The Bible was written more by man... here is the proof." Of course I questioned the authority of the Bible yet it is mostly others that demand proof. I am already sold on God's word.

 

Well Portalguy made the observation and I hadn't even though about it. I am very glad he did because it was only furthering a very derogatory statement for the thread.


JD4U...I can only answer this question for myself. Yes. Jesus Christ intervened in my life; a life that was near complete destruction. For me he is the only way to salvation. As far as what you are asking, it is not my place to say. I believe that God's sovereignty is unlimited and it is not my place to speak on 'salvation'. I do not dispute the NT and what I know is purpoted within it with regards to salvation...but like I have said a million times over, God is all and I am nothing.

Here is my question for you: is Jesus greater than the Father?


...and I kind of just realized this. I feel that Christians who exalt the bible over God are no different than scientists who do the same with science. It is still man trying to 'have the last word'. Even if you believe the bible is the Word of God...you still need to acknowledge God to be greater than what you in your humaness can imagine.

 

Bill Hicks a comedian, who was all about the one conciousness and knew god through mystical experience, did this bit that is sooo funny. I love it.

""Fundamentalist Christianity. Fascinating. These people actually believe the world is 12 thousand years old. Swear to God! Based on what? I asked them. 'Well, we looked at all the people in the Bible, and we added them up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages – 12 thousand years.' Well, how fucking scientific! Okay. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble there. That's good.

You believe the world's 12 thousand years old? 'That's right.' Okay, I got one word to ask you. A one word question. Ready? 'Uh-uh.' Dinosaur.

You know, the world's 12 thousand years old and dinosaurs existed, and they existed in that time ... you'd think it would have been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point. 'And lo, Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus ... with a splinter in his paw. And O, the disciples did run a-shrieking: "What a big fucking lizard, Lord!" But Jesus was unafraid, and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw, and the big lizard became his friend. And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O, so many years, inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat fucking families and their fat dollar bills. And O, Scotland did praise the Lord: "Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord."'"

Here some more funny Bill Hicks christian stuff to add to the flavor of this post

"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?"

• "I'm sorry if anyone here is Catholic. I'm not sorry if you are offended, I'm actually sorry – just the fact that you're Catholic. Gotta be one of the most ludicrous fucking beliefs ever. Like these vampire priests sink their twin fangs of guilt and sin into you as a child and suck your joy of life out of you the rest of your fucking existence."

• "The whole image is that eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love. That's the message we're brought up with, isn't it? Believe or die! 'Thank you, forgiving Lord, for all those options.'"

"Christianity has a built-in defense system: Anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism, and the only way to get by it – and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist – is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field and just go, 'Show me.'"

Last weekend, my friend and I went into a farm, took some mushrooms, and we sat on a field. I looked up into the sky and saw God. He told me that there is nothing to fear, that he loves every single creature on this planet, and he showered gifts of forgiveness and love onto the Earth, and I realised that there was nothing to fear, and I loved everything ... Now, if that isn't a bad thing for this country, I don't know what is. How can we continue to make weapons if we love everything?"

 

Actually, fundamentalists don't believe the world is 12,000 years old. They believe it is 6,000 years old with the belief that "creation" took place in the year 4,004 B.C.

Many fundamentalists are unevolved-mentally at least!

• Despite the fundamentalists' renouncement of catholicism, they have adopted many catholic beliefs taking the message out of context or using a message which has been altered.

Many who were hell-bent on manipulating the christian faith did so by incorporating pagan elements into the faith. Many of these elements were implemented after the death of Jesus and especially came to fruition during the 4th century A.D. These teachings included the concept of eternal damnation, questioning beliefs, celibacy, etc.

Bible Study Made Simple
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Our experience suggests that most Christians would like to know how to really study the Bible for themselves, rather than depending on pastors, teachers, etc., to tell them what Scripture "means."
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Bible study is not the same as devotional reading. Reading a portion of Scripture each day is wonderful spiritual exercise, but delving into the text to extract its essence is different.
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While Bible study takes time, discipline, tools and effort, the mechanics can be mastered relatively quickly.
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We include this specialized section because some Christians truly want to be able to learn truth and apply it for themselves. Spiritual liberty will never be complete until one is free from the necessity to depend on someone else to tell them what to think and how to act. The teaching in the rest of this web site will lead anyone to liberation from the illegitimate religious chains that bind them. But total freedom that includes body, soul, heart and mind, requires that we be able to learn truth on our own.
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This section will give you the means to find the truth for yourself. It is worth the effort. Because:
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"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."

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Taken from:
http://www.freedomguide.net/how%20to%20understand%20bible/Intro%20page.htm

Also, Check this out:

Unless we have 100% facts and know 100% of the culture and know 100% of what, why, to whom, what for, etc facts and situation about something then we could be mislead or have a misunderstanding about the issues or doctrine.

Many times we do not have all the fact, and not know 100% of the culture details about Bible things and Bible words and we and others can come up with wrong conclusions. These wrong conclusions can be pasted down for generations, until someone challenages us or shows us something that would show us that may we have a misunderstanding about it. Truth needs to be tested and tested. Lies and misunderstands and lies will be exposed.

From:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/libchrist/messages/?msg=1203.1
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Let me specify my question more clearly: Is there any other ways to salvation besides Jesus?

Now my answer to your question: No


How do I exalt the Bible? By reading and examing it... exactly what God says to do? By reading His word, one can grow closer to God.


Romans 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness...

 

I was not saying 'you' exalt the bible personally. I believe that if someone doesn't accept Christ as Lord and savior before they die (and I mean that in terms of human understanding) that God is much greater than what current fundamentalist doctrine purports about the idea. It was a general comment, much like what thespeez is on about.

Jesus as the son of God is the only way to the father. So the Father is the ultimate way to salvation. Does the Father have power beyond what Jesus and Christianity have displayed...I believe yes. And by doing so I do not discredit God, but honor his absolute soveriegnty over all things, including Christ and the Word.

thespeez...really solid post! While it encompasses more of Catholicism than anything else, the melding of christianity and pagan beliefs really surged with Constantine, as his mother was entirely pagan and perusaded him to do so. Just name me any boy who's mother can't make him do something....hint hint, Jesus turning water into wine.

 

Okay... I basically agree with that.

How do you know that Jesus is the only way to salvation?