Hippy Poets!

THUDLY,


You have to get to know them, there are thousands; otherwise I'd be naming the "usual suspects." I'll add, that many hippies (from the "hippie generation") are still around and are parents and grandparents; and many of these kids are living, and teaching, these noble values.

David





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pulled out my bong
and took a hit
toked it long
now i don't give a shit

not good poetry,but poetry non the less...but i'm not a hippie,i don't carry a gun...

 

Natural23, you may be right-- all the naive, spoiled, ignorant brats that were clogging the streets of major cities with futile protests, spitting on soldiers and overdosing, grew up and now clog our schools and universities where they spew their ire and venom to a new generation of naive, spoiled, ignorant brats.


Time marches on, but there is truly nothing new under the sun.

 

Thud, every time someone comes up with a hippy poet, you feel the need to either redefine "poet" or "hippy." ANYONE can do that.

Again,
Lennon (yes, he wrote at least 3 books of poetry)
Ginsburg, (yes, he was defined by many as a hippy, whether Thudly was "impressed" by him or not. I am not "impressed" by Ernest Hemmingway, but I don''t deny that he is an author, and one who never paid a vanity press to press his book.)
Alicia Bay Laurel Her book Liviing on the Earth was a piece of poetry in living
Morrison (not the only poet who was a drunk......so what? Don't you proudly admit to being one, too, Thud?)
There are more. Just because one person denies them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

THUDLY,

My sense about your comments tells me that you are narrowing your view so much that your comments are not accurate. Yes, there are people in most all "group categories" who do foolish and destructive things; and often these actions are not so obvious. The Hippies are a group that, in my view, contains a great variety of unique individuals; we could choose many other groups that we could make inaccurate generalizations about, that may appear to some to be true, because of the popular assosciations that that group has; some of the more "artful" uses of these techniques have been utilized throughout history to 'pit' groups against one another. So, again, maybe the view that you are stating may be too narrow to be true.

Peace,

David

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1. I do not consider Lennon a "poet".

2.Ginsburg, as much as I detest him personally, is a poet-- he wrote a few good poems. However, goddamn it!-- he is considered, by the literary establishment, a beat poet.

3.I never paid a "vanity press". I published my novel through the new method of publication-on-demand. I only paid a nominal fee for original set-up--in my case, I had to pay extra to transfer my flawless, professionally-typed manuscript to CD because I didn't have a computer at the time. I have already recouped the price. My novel will never go out of print and I get at least 20% royalties, which is more than any established author gets, I guauantee you, from their publisher. I was already a nationally-published author of non-fiction and fiction, as well as a newspaper columnist, reporter and feature writer. So kindly go pound sand.

Why you find it neccessary to invent a "hippie poet" is beyond me. To justify your "hippie lifestyle"? Unicorns are nice to think about, too, but wishing there were such a thing does not make it true.

By and large, the hippies were mindless pleasure seekers, some of whom could play music and sing.

 

they definatly took over for the beats.One world,we're all the same,we're all drunks,we're all beats,we're all hippies,it's all the same fkn movement.The press(hey that was you) got tired of the beat movement and started calling them hippies.By and large the beats were mindless pleasure seekers,some of whom could cite poetry,smoke ciggerettes and drink.bfd

and dylan was one of the greatest poets of the century.yingyang

 

Should we start worshipping the ground you walk on?

Fat chance.

 

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead


Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

Columbia Records

 

.....

 

I give the fuck up. If you insist on calling all these beat poets, many of which were old enough in the 60's to be the hippie's mothers and fathers, "hippie poets" so right ahead. However, if you ever get in a conversation with any educated literary majors, be prepared to be corrected just as I have done to you.


Like my dad used to say, "There is no arguing with ignorance."

 

huh. My Mind Is Wide Open To All Of It


www.spadedheart.com

 

THUDLY,

If I am clear on this this thread has become largely focused on the definition of "intellectual"; or more specifically "what is an intellectual" ?

Although I have participated in this discussion, and I see it as interesting, I want to point out the true nature of the initialization of this thread:

Jane started the thread with:

To my awareness a question worthy for consideration.

The first response to the question was a post by you (THUDLY):

and the change in focus as mentioned above then ensued from there.

Pages later, after some discussion you write:

I will say that I think much of this thread has been cordial and I believe that many good points have been presented. And clearly we are, in essence, now, as mentioned above, focused on the question "what is an intellectual."

It is my sense in reading this thread, although I do not know for sure, that you are largely focused on the affect and curriculum instead of orderly, logical, consideration of the existence and manifestation of what I will 'coin' as intellectual pursuit; and instead of the variety of forms of mastery that fall witin this general category of human endeavor.

Another term that requires a clearer defintion in order to properly approach a majority of the discussion in this thread thus far is what is a "Beatnick" and what is a "Hippie"; and do these qualities transcend the boundries of era that may typically be assigned to these qualities. As I have mentioned earlier in this thread I believe that the quality of "Hippie" transcends generational boundries; and my sense of your 'take' on this is that you believe that it does not, i.e. "if one was not a Hippie in the 1960's then one cannot be a Hippie"; to me this would be a very narrow and plainly incorrect view point; please correct me on this if you see my view, here, as inaccurate.

My immediate family was, and is, for the most part, comprised of intellectuals (by some 'strict' definition of the term), scientists and artists; and, for the most part, were not Hippies in the sense of popular sterotyped lifestyles but had a strong slice of "Hippie values." I grew up, during the 1960's, as a child, in close contact to a wide variety of people and subcultures including many Hippies and people of the 'Beat Generation.' I have found that the pursuits of many of the Hippies that I was blessed to know were non-conventional in the sense of having and forming curriculum that fulfill what I have referred to above as a "'strict' definition" of an "intellectual." However, I do not believe that this "'strict' defintion" is accurate in terms of encompassing what an "intellectual" truly is.

Following I refer to Merriam-Webster for a broad defintion of the term "intellectual":

Main Entry: 1in·tel·lec·tu·al
Pronunciation: "in-t&l-'ek-ch&-w&l, -ch&l, -shw&l
Function: adjective
1 a : of or relating to the intellect or its use b : developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : [size=-1]RATIONAL[/size] c : requiring use of the intellect
2 a : given to study, reflection, and speculation b : engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellect
- in·tel·lec·tu·al·i·ty /-"ek-ch&-'wa-l&-tE/ noun
- in·tel·lec·tu·al·ly /-'ek-ch&-w&-lE, -ch&-lE, -shw&-lE/ adverb
- in·tel·lec·tu·al·ness /-'ek-ch&-w&l-n&s, -ch&l-, -shw&l-/ noun

Main Entry: 2intellectual
Function: noun
1 plural, archaic : intellectual powers
2 : an intellectual person

And for broader defintions Wikipedia appears to be a useful resource:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual#Intellectualism

As a very pure example of intellectual Hippies; hidden in Venice California was a group of people that would meet periodically through the week, for many of them for thrity or more years; they would meet to discuss and perform in a wide variety of subjects and activities, to 'hang-out' and empower each other; some of the content consisted of what books had been read that week, chess, politics, science, mathematics, various aspects of horiculture, computer programming and hacking, painting, poetry, music, the list goes on; the understanding within these areas of study ranged from amatuer to highly accomplished. What was fantasic to see was the range and depth of knowledge in "the little smokey room"; to see the honesty, direct but kind nature of these people. It appears likely to me that you will never hear of this particular example (or be able to identify it) elsewhere but none the less many of these Hippies, although likely to be dismissed by those who would not take the time to 'look deeper,' were powerful intellectuals. As a critically thinking individual I find it a shame that the world, collectively, has often not taken good advantage of the many important human resources that are available to further extend our advancement toward a better world for all.

Peace and Love my Friend,

David




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Jesus, David! You clearly have too much time on your hands, as well as too many 50 cent words in your head.


When I said, "The hippie movement didn't have much intellectual power", or whatever, it was shorthand for, to be a poet one needs intelligence, most hippies weren't too fucking smart, therefore there weren't many hippie poets (if you exclude the songwriters like Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison [NOT JIM MORRISON] and a few others), etc.

And... so far, by those standards, NOBODY has named one hippie poet.

I'm being technical-- I should know from long experience on these forums that rationality, i.e., being technical, doesn't cut it here where emotions are all that counts. IF IT FEELS GOOD, DO IT! Another stupid hippie slogan that brought us rampant drug abuse and AIDS, among other things.

Yes, I was in SF and NYC during the 60's and I had long hair and did drugs, but I was there as a spy from middle America!

Actually, I knew quite a few beats, and most of them (except shameless self-promoters such as Ginsburg and his ilk) merely tolerated hippies-- many disdained them.

 

...

 

I'd rather be right than popular.

 

By "right" you mean find the truth, correct ?

I recall one thread a liitle ways back where someone was making fun of SoaringEagle, harshly taunting him, about the manner of his posts; about the way he would type. Eagle then let the taunting person know that he was paralyzed; it was interesting to watch the reaction, clearly this person had made some incorrect assumptions about Eagle. And, taking this as an analogy: I utilize the Forums for a number of reasons; and each persons life is different. You and I are different people; I often like discussing issues here on the Forums and I like communicating with you, and I see my use of time as correct and profitable.


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I must cynically ask: How do you know Soaring Eagle was really paralyzed? Are all the people that can't spell, punctuate or use correct grammar paralyzed or just lazy, stupid or reckless? (And, I ain't talking the occasional typo-- we all make them).
Or maybe they just think it's "cool".

Well, it's not.

 

Thudly,

I think you're missing a relevant aspect of the analogy that I used.

In order to reason in this Forum, and in life, certain forms of imagination and asssumption must be utilized; for example, if someone explains to us a story about a "situation" that according to that "someone" actually happened; as that story is being told our minds create an image or an analog about what is being told to us; this often comes as a "picture" or "set of pictures" in our 'minds-eye' and this process is often a semiconscious process. One of the difficulties with this is that people often mistake this for the truth of the situation that is being referred to; they mistake it, as some would say, for 'reality.' We all know the saying "don't believe everything that you read"; well this refers to something that certainly most all of us can learn something about.

I believe that the point that you are making has some validity but it diverts from what I am attempting to illustrate in post # 57; whether or not my awareness of Eagle is ultimately true or not we do not know; unless you have substantial information contradicting this and if this were the case then I would still argue that it is the case that you do not know me well enough to determine whether or not I make good use of 'my time.'

So the analogy simply states that you do not know me well enough to make a determination about how I budget my time; further I argue that even if you did "know" me with much greater depth it would be difficult to make a determination because of the largely 'subjective' nature of this.

Thudly I feel that I understand the point that you are trying to make, and in fact this, actually, was an ongoing arguement in my family for years. It is my sense that your point has some validity but it is by no means the entire 'picture'; it tends to cave into a form of 'intellectual elitism; I believe that there is a 'middle ground' that respects the knowledge, rigor and insight that I assume you are referring to when you use the word "intellectual" in this context.

As for the idea that errors are not "cool," I would say to you that it depends on the type of work being performed: If the error occurs in a medical emergency room it may very well be not at all "cool." If the error occurs in a situation of discovery such as the work of a inventor or artist it may actually be that an allowance for error is necessary and very important; as would be the case if someone is "looking through 'patterns' to find the 'patterns' that make sense"; Thomas Edison's quest for a lightbulb filiment or a poet trying to convert part of a non-verbal awareness into poetry are but two isolated examples.

In answering the initial post of this thread, a google search for [hippie poetry] or for [hippie poet] or searches changing the spelling of "hippie" to "hippy" yield a number of sites with reference to "hippie poets."

Peace,

David









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Well-that's kinda splittin hairs there Thud-as I was surrounded by both-who knows what title people want put on em?-It's like bikers-there are weekend warriors then there's the live to ride group- big difference-The H.A was real good-friendly folk back then--labels can get tough to hang on to-