Jesus has never accepted worship (Mt.2:11-Mt.14.33.Mt.28.17 etc)

Portalguy

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All members can participate? right? This isn't a PM?​

Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Portalguy

Thank you very much brother and No, you don't sound so, Ok, I will try to write a summary for each of the recent threads , OK =), but by the way, most of these verses I already commented on them and discussed them in my thrad is God 1 or 3? They aren't long because I didn't post many other writer's opinions there, you can check them.

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As I stated in post#1: I already commented on this verse in my thread [Is God 1 or 3?] ​

However, let's see other opinions, (I will add to them too) ​

Actually each one of the writers is focusing on a different thing by explaining it in details regarding (John 8:56-59) ​

Post #2:is focusing on the pre-existence of Jesus​

Post #3:is focusing onI AM​

Post #4: I AM THAT I AM​

Post #5: why did the Jews try to kill Jesus for saying "I am"? Wasn't he claiming to be the Creator of the Universe?​

Post #6 & 7: by me =) is focusing on: the verses 55- 57 + why did the Jews pick up stones to stone Jesus? (Different answer from post#5) + The translation of verse 85 and simplifying Exodus 3.14-15.​

Post#8: is focusing on the pre-existence of Jesus (Different from post#2) ​

Post#9: the opinion of the editors of K.J.V. ​

See, I thought I have to post them all =)​

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Each color points to something, e.g.:​

Jè Pay attention​

Jè Verses​

Jè Quote​

And so on =), if you read a Quote and in the following day you wanted to refer to it, you can find it easily, right =)​

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Very true, I can give you a summary if you want, but you know, as I experienced too, many people misunderstand you or don't get the point especially if there are ordinary people, and if a non-Christian read it perhaps he won't understand what's going on! I want everybody to understand. And as you saw: each one of the writers is focusing on a different thing by explaining it in details regarding (John 8:56-59) if I only talked about the pre-existence of Jesus maybe the others want the explanation of I AM? So, I posted all of them =) everyone will get what he is looking for without asking me so =) ​

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As I said: each one of the writers is focusing on a different thing by explaining it in details regarding (John 8:56-59) do you want me to summarize them all or only the pre-existence of Jesus or I AM or why did the Jews wanted to stone him …. It is really better to read them, myself I like reading =)​

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Sadly, some people don't mind to read voluminous books regarding things they like to read about, but when it comes to the religion, faith, God, things they dislike to read about because they don't care or the have a different belief etc ….you know, if someone is looking for the truth, then he should do his best, not waiting for the truth to come to him? Some issues need to be discussed in details, but yeah, it depends on the person (seeker) his age, his scholarship, his sincerity (is he really looking for the truth) etc.​

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Peace and love ​

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Yours Sincerely,​

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Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

No.

He said the work he does is determined by God. If you don't look at the whole message that is recorded in the bible, you will miss this. Being one with God does not mean that you are God. Doing God's will does not make you God. God using you and/or speaking through you to educate others does not make you God. Try hard to grasp the full meaning of what Jesus says so you can comprehend your own relationship with God.

John 14:10
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

 

Kharakov

Double true

I don't think that anybody needs to try hard to grasp the full meaning of most of what Jesus said, they are very clear.

John 10:28-30: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."

* (I and the Father are One.) In divinity? In a holy "Trinity"? No! These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in PURPOSE Are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. No one shall pluck them out of Jesus' hand, so too shall no one pluck them out of God's hand.
This statement does not suggest either a dual or triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word hen ("one") becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: John 17:20-22:
"That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE".
(KJV)è "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."
Other version "That they may be one [hen], just as we are one [hen]"
which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God, as stated: "I [Jesus] always do the things that are pleasing to Him [God]" (John 8:29).There is thus no implication that Jesus and God, or the twelve apostles are to be considered as of one essence. In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods. If you was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be "one" meaning "co-equal" in status on the basis of John 10:30, then you should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe "them" - the disciples of Jesus, to be "co-equal" in status with the Father and Jesus ("just as we are one") in John 17:22.
Jesus said: "And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one." (John 17:22).
The unity and accord was of the authorized divine message that originated from the Father, received by Jesus and finally passed on to the disciples.
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Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Portalguy

A summary

Q: How shall we interpret their "kneeling down before Jesus."? Should we understand that they were "praying" to him? Far from it! Let us ask the Bible to explain:


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"And when Abigail saw David, she hasted, and lighted off the ass, and fell before David on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, And fell at his feet, and said, Upon me, my lord, [upon] me [let this] iniquity [be]: and let thine handmaid, I pray thee, speak in thine audience, and hear the words of thine handmaid." 1 Samuel 25:23-24​

When Abigail "fell before" king David was she "worshipping" him? Was she "praying" to him? When she addressed him as "my lord," did she mean that he was her God?. Similarly, ​

"Then she went in, and fell at his (Elisha's) feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out." 2 Kings 4:37

"And his (Joseph's) brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we [be] thy servants." Genesis 50:18​

"And there went over a ferry boat to carry over the king's household, and to do what he thought good. And Shimei the son of Gera fell down before the king, as he was come over Jordan;" 2 Samuel 19:18​

An authority on the Bible and its original language, George M. Lamsa, explained the word "worship" as it occurs specifically in John 9:38 in his book GOSPEL LIGHT (1936 edition, p. 353): ​

The Aramaic word sagad, worship, also means to bend or to kneel down. Easterners in greeting each other generally bow the head or bend down. When a ruler or holy man is greeted, the people kneel before him. "He worshipped him" does not imply that he worshipped Jesus as one who worshipped God. Such an act would have been regarded as sacrilegious and a breach of the first commandment in the eyes of the Jews and the man might have been stoned. But he knelt before him in token of homage and gratitude. This is also a sign of self-surrender and loyalty. The blind man worshipped Jesus in acknowledgment of his divine power and in appreciation of his compassion on him in opening his eyes. He had no knowledge of the claims of Jesus nor was he interested in his teachings, but he was convinced by the miracle performed that he must be a holy man and one empowered by God. ​

To read more about the definitions of the word "worship" please click here and concentrate on number 4 under section Definitions of WORSHIP in Hebrew (O.T)​

Homage (Oxford Dictionary):n. tribute, expression of reverence (pay homage to). [Latin homo man] ​

NB:

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Portalguy​

if you want a summary for other threads of mine, just let me know, OK​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

The New Testament has stated that Jesus made the
Earth. Christians believe the New Testament, you don't. And because only God made the Earth, as stated in the Old Testament. Jesus is then worthy of worship. All who reject Gods blood sacrifice will have no place in God's Kingdom.

 

Dear campbell34​

believe it or not, whenever I find you in my threads I become so happy =), but I don't like off topic posts ​

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I think we already discussed this before in my thread [Is God 1 o r3?] and here​

Gods blood!!!!! that means the father died on the coross too?​

God is eternal, doesn't die? (Deuteronomy 33: 27) the eternal God is thy refuge ​

Eternal adj. existing always; without an end or (usu.) beginning Jesus died on the cross , God doesn't die. so, he isn't God.​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

God occupied a human body that died, Gods Spirit does not die. When Jesus human body died, His Spirit lived on. And because God is a Spirit, God never died, just the body He occupied. Yet it was the shed blood from that body that became a covering for the sins of the world. Just as the angle of death passed over the homes of the Children of Israel, who's doors were smeared with the lambs blood. We who are covered by the blood of Christ will pass from death unto life. Because Jesus was Gods lamb, that was sacrificed for the sins of the world. The Bible tells us, without the sheading of blood, there is no forgivness for sins. WHO'S BLOOD, WILL COVER YOUR SINS?

 

campbell34​

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You said in post #27: All who reject Gods blood sacrifice will have no place in God's Kingdom.​

I said in post # 28èGods blood!!!!! That means the father died on the cross too? I.e. can I understand that the father, the son and the Holy Spirit occupied one human body? Can I understand then the soul in that body was the one Spirit of the 3 Gods (3 Gods but 1 in one Spirit)? Their Spirit is one not separated and different? If so, please clarify to me the following;​

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1- John 5:37: And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his shape (if the 3 Gods occupied one human body (Jesus' body) didn't his family, people, disciples and the Jews during his life as human on earth hear him and see him? If they heard Jesus then they heard the father as well, they are 3 but one? You have never heard his voice nor seen his shape!!! Didn't Jesus say in John 14:9:Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father? Was (John 14:9) a metaphor? Did I miss something, Please clarify. + The most important thing, give me a biblical verse (from Torah or the 4 Gospels) where God says that he (God) occupied a human body.​

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2- Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."[This confirms that Jesus preached to worship One and Only God, not trinity.] Does God have a God? (Our God is one Lordè our points that it is Jesus' God too?)Jesus said: "And this is eternal life, that they may know Theeè(the father) the only true God" (John 17:3). And because God is the only one who should be worshipped,​

John 4.21-34: (Jesus) saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Fatherè (he said the father he didn't mention the son nor the Holy Spirit, he only mentioned the father because the father is God and God only should be worshipped). Ye worship ye know not what, we know what we worship… and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father…for the Father seeketh such to worship him.​

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Who said so?​

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He is God himself, how is he God's lamb! Is he the lamb of himself?​

Why should God make such a sacrifice? Why did he cover the sins of the world in such way?​

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Dear Campbell tell me, why without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness for sins? And which sins exactly?​

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no need for blood to cover my sins, just ask God to forgive sincerely you and he will do so =)!​

2 Chronicles 7.14If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.​

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Ezekiel33.9-20When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. ​

Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live? Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? …. Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.​

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Exodus 34.6-7​

And the LORD … proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.​

Quraan: And those who, when they have committed Fahishah (great sins) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their; - and none forgive sins but Allah- and do not persist in what (wrong) they have done, while they know. 136. For such, the reward is forgiveness from their Lord ​

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Quraan: … "And who despairs of the Mercy of his Lord except those who are astray?" see he called them astray! What a Merciful God. ​

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Quraan: … "O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."​

Have a nice, peaceful and faithful day =)​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

"The most important thing, give me a biblical verse (from Torah or the 4 Gospels) where God says that he (God) occupied a human body."

Why just the Torah and the 4 Gospels?... we believe the whole Bible is inspired by God.

 

Come on man, you say that one does not need a blood sacrifice to be saved. And then you quote all these OT passages. Yet in the OT days, it was required by the law to make sacrifices and thus "be saved."

 

JesusDiedForU​

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Every one can claim so. It isn't the word of God.​

Jesus talked about OT and Gospel, Quraan stated that Allah revealed OT and Gospel, Paul came later after Jesus' ascendant.​

Peace and love ​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

JesusDiedForU​

The concept of saving according to christianity is made up by Paul. He borrowed that from Pagans.​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

At no time did the Father, or the Holy Ghost dwell in the human body of Christ. This can be understood when Jesus prayed to His Father that was in heaven, it is also understood when Jesus told those around Him, that He would have to leave so the Holy Spirit could come and teach them all things. God exist as three Beings which equal one God. They can be seperate, and yet still equal one God. And this is also demonstrated by the fact that in the Old Testament God said He created the earth alone and by Himself. And then in the New Testament it states that Jesus created the earth. The only way this would be possible, is if Jesus and the Father were the same God. And this is why in the Old Testament when God speaks about the creation of man, He states, "let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness."

 

campbell34
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well, this is very obvious that you are worshipping three different separated Gods? Not one god. Blasphemy according to your Bible?
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When did God say so? Don't tell me Paul!
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John 5:30: By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
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John 8:28: So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
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And of course they aren't. So it isn't possible at all.
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John 13:16: I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
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Jesus said: "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee (the father) the only true God" (John 17:3).
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Quraan: Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers.
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Quraan: And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, they say: "This (Muhammad) is naught but a man who wishes to hinder you from that which your fathers used to worship." And they say: "This is nothing but an invented lie." And those who disbelieve say of the truth when it has come to them (i.e. Prophet Muhammad when Allah sent him as a Messenger with proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, etc.): "This is nothing but evident magic!"
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Quraan: Say: "I have been forbidden to worship those whom you worship besides Allah, since there have come to me evidences from my Lord, and I am commanded to submit (in Islam) to the Lord of the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
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Quraan: Ask the Children of Israel how many clear Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) We gave them. And whoever changes Allah's Favour after it had come to him, then surely, Allah is Severe in punishment.
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Quraan: They say: "Why does he not bring us a sign (proof) from his Lord?" Has there not come to them the proof of that which is (written) in the former papers (Scriptures, i.e. the (Torah), and the (Gospel), etc. about the coming of the Prophet Muhammad).
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Does [Genesis 1:26] point to a triune GOD? è (link)
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Peace and love
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
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Did you know that the Gospel was written about 70-80 years after Christ? Well Paul's letters were also written well after the ministry of Christ. Paul was inspired by God just lik the rest of the Bible.

 

JesusDiedForU​

Yup, that's why we (Muslims) do not believe that anyone of them is the word of god, they are the Gospels of john, matthew, etc, we believe in the gospel of Jehova (or the Gospel which was with Jesus / the Gospel of Jesus) peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Allah revealed one Gospel not 4 or whatever.​

Every body can claim so, Paul's teachings are different from Jesus' the Messanger of Allah.​

Peace and love =)​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

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Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Yet, the very book you quote from-Exodus-you will find a story where the Hebrews had the choice to put blood of perfect lamb on their door in order for their first born to be saved in Egypt. Keep in mind that the Hebrews had to ACCEPT the concept of putting blood on their door. And keep in mind that this event happened well before Paul came along.

 

How our Paul's teachings different?