Was Jesus a Perfect sacrifice? (Exodus.12:5-7)

​

However, the following is a relevant article I 'm not sure who wrote it, (I will summarize it)
©:

Jesus allowed himself to be killed to redeem the born sinners.​

First we will see how according the (Torah [OT]), that Jesus does not match the concept of a Sacrificial lamb for some very obvious reasons.
According to the Torah, for a lamb to be accepted as a sacrifice to atone for
sin, some standards must be met first;
In {Exodus 12:5-7} we examine the incompatibility
The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs.
1. A sacrificial lamb according to the Torah must be unblemished
yet we read that Jesus prior to his sacrifice was beaten, and spat upon {Mt
27:30}
2. A sacrificial lamb must be -one- year old.
Jesus was over thirty years old {Lk 3:23}
3. The lamb is to be sacrificed in the evening.
Jesus was sacrificed at 3 in the afternoon {Mark 15:25}
Any comments on the writer's article?

Peace and love


Yours Sincerely,

​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

So your only defense is that Jesus wasn't a year old animal and he wasn't slaughtered at midnight?

Yet, Jesus was an UNBLEMISHED (without sin) MALE who WAS slaughtered without a BROKEN BONE and was TAKEN OUT OF THE (just as the sacrifices were) when He was killed.

And that is just to name a few: http://www.hopeofisrael.net/messiah1.htm


BY THE WAY I DID NOT POST THIS... YOU DID (perhaps it is a mistake)

Originally Posted by JesusDiedForU
</FONT>well! As you see, God ordered animals not a human being or God!


However in regards to what you wrote... God ordered animal sacrifce up until the NEW CONVENANT


Hundreds of years before Christ came it was stated in Jeremiah:

"The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel

 

JesusDiedForU​

Isn't mine, but the writer's, ​

My opinion is: That (what you wrote above UNBLEMISHED [without sin] ) is the Christians' own belief and interpretation!BTW the same writer commented on this too, he wrote:

*****Jesus also did not qualify as a perfect sacrifice for sins.
Others who spoke _about_ Jesus in the Gospel claimed;
"You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin."{1Jo 3:5}
Here we see that those who spoke of Jesus assumed Jesus lived a sinless life according to the Bible, but if we research the life of Jesus according to the Gospel, we come upon many incidences where Christ disproves those who labeled him as a faultless being;
For example;
1. Jesus taught to that getting angry is considered a sin and even
punishable by hell {Matthew 5:21-22}.
yet there are many times in the Bible where Jesus vividly and loudly displayed anger....

​

2. The Gospel teaches to be honest [Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22, John 8:44],not to give false statements Then we see Jesus doing just that, when Jesus was asked to go to Jerusalem, Jesus told them that he would not be going, but then he later went secretly to Jerusalem by himself ( John 7:2-10 ). (Note: the words "not yet" which appear in some versions at John 7:8 are an editorial "emendation" to the original text in an apparent effort to rectify the false statement by Jesus.) ***Steven:you read in the (NIV) footnotes:Some early manuscripts do not have yet. Click here / Plus (MSG) + (ANP)+ (NLT):Some manuscripts omit yet. (ESV):You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast/ (NKJV) NU-Text omits yet. (HCSB) Other mss omit yet (WYC): Go ye up to this feast day, but I shall not go up to this feast day(CEV) Go on to the festival. My time hasn't yet come, and I am not going." ***



During his hearing before the high priest, Jesus said: "I have spoken openly to the world; I have -always- taught in the synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I -never- spoke secretly" (John 18:20) This is in direct conflict, to what we find elsewhere. He taught on the "mount" (5:1-7:28), by the sea (Matthew 13:1), on the plain (Luke 6:17-49), and in other places. To his disciples he said: "To you has been given the -secret- of the kingdom of God, but for those outside
everything is in parables; so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn about and be forgiven" (Mark 4:11-12).***Steven: Matthew 10:27:What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.***

3. John's Baptism was for the "Forgiveness of Sins" Jesus was Baptized {Mark 1:4}​

4. Suicide is a sin (1Corinthians 3:17) and (Exodus 20:13). according to Paul, Jesus ALLOWED himself to die. (John 19:30)

Furthermore, Jesus even claims to be a sinner according to the Bible;​

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."
{Mark 10:18}
Jesus stated that anyone ((without sin)) to condemn a woman who had sinned,
than he himself declined; Joh 8:11 "...And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

Of course this article is not to degrade our beloved Prophet Jesus, it is only to show that (((according to the Bible))) Jesus was not the perfect sacrifice which modern Christians claim him to be.
In Islam, Jesus was sent By God to assist the children of Israel avoid sin through wise words and miraculous signs. Jesus is described in the Qur'an as Righteous, one of the Most honored of those whom God sent, Noble and Humble. Muslims love Jesus, we take the burden which Christians try to pass on to Jesus and we take responsibility for our own actions instead of expecting Jesus (Blessings be upon him) to pay for our own debauchery.*****

Peace and love

Yours Sincerely,
Cat Stevens
Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!
​

 

JesusDiedForU​

​

Yes, it is....hahaha not the first time, I edited it.
​

​

When did God say so?
​

​

​

​

​

Ok, and did God say that this new covenant is the blood of Jesus? how did you know that this is the New covenant.​

​

Peace and love
Yours Sincerely,
Cat Stevens​

​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

​

​

​

​

​

 

​

Luke 22:
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

Matthew 26:
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

 

Some good points, Cat.

And as far as this issue goes; to my knowledge Christians are the only ones who claim that their evil/sin/karma can be (and was) paid for or done away with by someone else. All other religions teach self-responsibility.

 

What does that tell you...

 

JesusDiedForU
Hey JesusDiedForU!
I really do appreciate every moment you spend it to answer my questions thank you brother, may Allah bless you...
However, I am sure I read something about these verses somewhere
, I have my own comment on these verses too, But I think what I read about it was very interesting. however, I think to discuss them it should be done in new thread, that because the thread here is about (Exodus 12:5-7).
Is Jesus' Blood the New Covenant [Jeremiah31:31]
Thank you again brother =)
Peace and love =)

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

TrippinBTM​

Hi there =), nice too see ya here =)​

BTW: that was the writer's points, and of course I totally agree with it because I am a Muslim too =)​

but my dear brother the bible says something else, they follow Paul, the Bible says that everyone takes responsibility for their own actions, here are some examples, (I think I should make a new thread about this matter someday)​

Ezekiel18. 14:​

Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?​

The way of the LORD is not equal.O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD.​

Ezekiel 33:20​

O ye house of Israel,I will judge you every one after his ways.​

Quraan: Did you (O Muhammad) observe him who turned away… is with him the knowledge of the unseen so that he sees? Or is he not informed with what is in the pages (scripture) of Moses… that no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another. And that man can have nothing but what he does (good or bad)​

Quraan: And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayat (verses, revelations, etc.) of his Lord,but turns away from them ​

Matthew 13:13". . . They seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not, neither do they understand" ​

​

​

​

​

​

Exodus 34.6-7​

And the LORD … proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.​

​

Quraan: And those who, when they have committed Fahishah (great sins) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their; - and none forgive sins but Allah- and do not persist in what (wrong) they have done, while they know. 136. For such, the reward is forgiveness from their Lord ​

​

Quraan: … "And who despairs of the Mercy of his Lord except those who are astray?" see he called them astray! What a Merciful God. ​

​

Quraan: … "O My slaves who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."​

​

So Adam and Eve were responsible for their own deed, ​

Quraan: then Adam received from his Lord Words. And his Lord pardon him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.​

Matthew 19.14: But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heavenèdoes that mean that everybody is born without sin and all children belong to the Kingdom of heaven? But when they grow up and understand then they will be judged according to their deeds! Did I misunderstand it?​

Peace and love =)​

Yours Sincerely,​

​

Cat Stevens​

​

​

​

​

 

JesusDiedForU​

Hurrah I found it in my precious library Thanks Allah, but ...it is in Arabic , very very interesting, well, of course I should translate it , I think the writer is such a smart and genius!​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

It tells me that Christianity is the biggest cop-out ever.

 

CAT, JUST DEBATE FOR ONCE....


Just because I bring up another verse does not mean you have to create another post.... It's like you have an addiction... seriously man... You are debating just to win the argument... I am learning nothing from you.

 

JesusDiedForU​

​

!!!! ​

Go and see the mess in my thread [Is God 1 or 3] ask Jatom what happened? when we were discussing so many verses, he had to wait me till I finish,and the same to me I have to wait him too! Jatom wanted to discuss a particular verse, campbell wanted to discuss other verse , other members were discussing other verses! , you might find a question in page 2 and the answer in page 4!!!! plus, read the guidelines here and there was a thread I don't know where I read it , it says like whenever you want to post a reply ask yourself first, if it is off topic, make a new thread, I was looking for it I didn't find it. read the title, It is only about Exodus12:5-7, I think it is a good idea to discuss about one thing only. I wasn't doing that before , but yeah I think I have to do it, I am not here to win , myself I am still studying the Bible and Christianity. Manytimes members mention a verse , well, I put the link to that verse because I already discussed it, they might don't know that I did that, that because the title of the topic is about something else!, it is better than putting a link to a post which discusses other verses too!​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

No one has had a problem with it before... but the problem is.. is that you post way to must information in one post... you try to defeat by post overload rather than truth.

This is how it should go:

One person posts a point...

then then the other refutes it with one or two short topics

then they go back and forth arguing with little topics that keep building until one cannot argue anymore...


You however like to put every single point all at once and that just turns people away from discussing with you... I would like to learn... I would rather read a pamphlet than a novel... you see?

 

JesusDiedForU​

with what?​

hahaha....Are you serious, ....*CHUCkLES* Come on! before I was posting other writers' opinions about a specific passage in the Bible you can choose one of them and read it! right? plus, read this if you didn't.​

​

There is a difference between an open debate where you can argue whatever verse in the Bible you want, and when you want to argue one passage or a particular issue in the Bible?​

Now you are talking about my comments (responses) or threads, if the responses let me tell ya, if I have more than a comment on one verse? all of them are different? why shall I choose one? and as I said: ​

But again, I don't mind to give short comments!!! ​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

​

 

My responses are e-pamphlets you study in college right!​

​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Exactly, and I have to pay for college to learn...and get good grades.... here i just need the spark notes... ; )

 

"Sacrifice"...how fucking ancient and barbaric.

"God" sent himself to be sacrificed to himself to save US from himself (his wrath) and that one can murder, rape and slaughter thousands and still go to "Heaven" by justing saying a few words, but someone who has "sacrificed" their entire lives for the good of humanity will go to "Hell" just because they don't believe in this fairy tale?

RIDICULOUS!

 

JesusDiedForU​

as I said: I don't mind to give short comments =)​

But, Come on! college isn't that much hard right? you can do it man =)​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​

 

Libertine​

​

well, .......No, I will shut my mouth now, maybe someday I will write what I wanted to say​

Peace and love​

Yours Sincerely,​

Cat Stevens​

Note: Silly, Irrelevant, and the like, responses, posts, comments will be ignored (it depends on my mood and time if I won't ignore them), taking off the topic is losers' style, ask yourself: will you write such response if the writer wasn't a Muslim!​