Does ANYONE actually oppose socialized medicine?

And I would like to point out that a lot of these people can only afford that cheap, processed, packaged foods to feed themselves and their children. It is expensive to keep little bellies full of fresh fruits, veggies, and meats. When you can get 10 ramon noodles for a buck, or a box of mac and cheese for 50 cents, thats what you end up eating. College students go through it, and that on top of all the beer usually gives them the freshman 15. Then look at the people that always have to eat like that. It isn't healthy, but there isn't much they can do. Family's gotta eat something.

 

Quote: If you have worked hard to earn a good living then you should have the best healthcare. You've earned it! Everyone is not equal. Those with ambition and intelligence should be rewarded. Do any of you even know any doctors?


What the fuck are you talking about?! Yea, there is an obesity problem, but last time I checked that had no effect on people in car accidents, with brain tumors, cancer, etc.

I wonder if you will be one of those people who work hard for a good living, or if you be able to find a decent job at all. Maybe you will have a decent job and get laid off.

You are an idiot if you think that everyone who deserves to be rewarded is. this is health care we are talking about, and everyone has the right to it. This country will never be truly civilized while kids aren't taken to the doctor because their parents can't afford it.

 

I do work very hard to earn a decent living, in fact I'll have to get back to it in a bit....Cancer is often caused by smoking!! How much of our population smokes?? If you smoke or are obese, take care of yourself.

You can eat very healthy for little money, it's a cop out to say otherwise. American children are obese!! I guess parents can find plenty of food for them. How about not letting them veg in front of the TV, spend some fucking time with them in a healthy activity.

If you can't afford adequate healthcare for your children, don't have 'em. That's just irresponsible.

What needs to change is our economy, have enough good paying jobs w/health insurance for everyone. But don't sponge off of others. It's sickening when so many don't give a damn about their health.

You all want to blame others for your misfortunes or the misfortunes of others, life is not fair. That's that.

 

I think the point that seamonster is trying to make metro is that the cards don't always fall in people's favor all the time. Ask any of us who have worked their ass off in a good job only to watch their company downsize and eliminate your position and benefits with no notice.

So the option is signing on for a cobra plan to maintain benefits, which costs about $350 per month - try affording that on unemployement, if you're lucky enough to even recieve unemployment.

Always having a good job with benefits in this country is not a guarantee, even if you have a degree, tons of experience and work hard.

 

Quote: Cancer is often caused by smoking!! How much of our population smokes?? If you smoke or are obese, take care of yourself

Cancer is caused by MANY things, most of which we don't know, saying that it is often caused by smoking isn't really true.

Get off this obesity thing because I'm not even talking about that. A child should pay for a parents mistake, you are fine with that?! I know life isn't fair, but the fact is that plenty of other countries have a better health care system, we could too. There is no reason that a person should not be able to get health care because they can't afford it, that is not a civilized society.

There are only a finite number of jobs that give health insurance, and its getting smaller all the time, so obviously there are going to be more and more people uninsured.

I'm not blaming anyone for my misfortunes, i don't really have any, this may seem strange to you but I can empathize with others, I can think about problems that aren't necessarily affecting me.

 

Thank you dhs, that is exactly what I was getting at. Someone who would argue metros point has had it easy, and been lucky, or perhaps never been out on their own. Life is full of trials and tribulations and even if she hasn't experienced that yet, she will.

 

i geuss america should start with a two tier system. private/socialized health care. socialized health care for broken bones, aids, cancer ect ect...and private health care for obessiety, smoking disorders, and self inflicted damage.

the reason canadians go down to america for operations and such is because those canadians are rich, or have a rich supporter. it's nice that the rich can afford better health care but the care availabel for the over all population is way down...so it's only really a better health care system for the elite.

the government paying for health care would also force your government to be a little more responsible in how it approves certain things that may be damaging to the publics health. they might crack down more on tobbacco companies, or not pass so many pharm drugs that fuck you up in hte long run, if they're going to have to pay for it in the end. socialized health care makes for a mpore responsible government.

 

Yes, hence my comment "life isn't fair".
Why is universal healthcare the answer? Why not close the gap between the rich and poor and improve the economy. If people have good jobs with health insurance, there would be much less of a problem.

Yes, I know, but THAT is what needs changing in my opinion. Not healthcare.

 

It is really true.
I would also not condone someone's baking in the sun and then wanting free healthcare to remove skin cancer. Your actions have consequences.

Obesity is one of the main reasons I oppose universal healthcare, so of course I'll be mentioning it. It is a serious problem here, with serious consequences. Why don't we work to prevent and eliminate obesity, then healthcare costs would go way down. Why not prevent problems instead of dealing with the results?
Most other countries are healthier than we are, so I would assume their healthcare costs are much less, therefore much more doable.

So can I and if this is true you will want to help people gain better health and prevent illness rather than get free treatment after the fact.

 

Interesting inference.

I've been out on my own for over 7 years. I take care of myself. I am healthy not just due to "luck", but do to exercise, being a vegetarian, not smoking, and other preventitive measures. If I was unhealthy my views wouldn't change. I don't feel others should have to take care of me. If everyone was as responsible with their health as I am and others I know, then I would have no problem with universal healthcare. The fact is though, that people don't take good care of themselves.
I haven't had it easy either. I just don't make others feel guilty about my problems. If my health fails, I'll take care of it. Somehow. I will not expect others to do it for me.

IF, we quit the war in Iraq, quit the war on drugs, and spent less on other programs then maybe we could afford universal healthcare, but for now I don't need a tax increase.
There are many countries much worse off than the U.S. I'm not too worried about fat Americans when there are starving people in other countries, AIDS epidemics, people with no clean water, etc. Why, just because we were born in the U.S.A. are we more deserving of healthcare?

 

Since people dont have equal rights to life, nutrition and work
Socialized Medicine is a must in every country.

It's bullshit to say that the overall quality would decrease. I think it would improve.

 

indeed,

and you wouldnt have to worry about tax increases costing you more because you'd be paying the same amount anyways, just to the insureance companies.

say you spend 300 a month on health insurance. 250 of that goes back into the system later on to pay for your operation. 30 dollars goes to administrative costs, and 20 goes into the pockets of the share holders.

if you were to spend that same 300 dollars a month in health care tax, 270 would go to the hospital, and 30 to the administrative costs.


400 million americans giving 20 dollars extra per month to the healthcare system...

more money for the hospitals = better health care

better health care for the same cost as insuring yourself = better than insurance.

 

Not to mention the fact that american military expenditures is more than the sum of the following 6 countries.

 

no matter how healthy you seem no Metro, there is no saying you won't be involved in an accident tomorrow that could end up costing you 50,000 dollars.

 

I realize that and when this happens to people I sympathize. I'm not so much against universal healthcare as I am against people neglecting their health. But, you see, I don't want to be against that. I believe people should be free to do what they wish to their bodies even if it's detrimental to their health. I believe in freedom. If I am paying for someone else's healthcare due to their life choices, that's not freedom.
What I do support whole-heartedly is a strong economy with decent paying jobs for most and health insurance for most too. That is why I'm voting Democrat this year. Then hopefully people could afford healthcare.

 

Don't count on it. Under Clinton, the gap between rich and poor INCREASED, unions were weakened, the number of good-paying jobs in the US decreased due to massive outsourcing, and millions went uninsured - just like today. You are certainly correct when you say that this problem would be far smaller if people had good-paying jobs with decent benefits, but unfortunately, that isn't the case, and it won't be the case if Kerry gets elected either, because neither the democrats NOR republicans are going to do what really needs to be done, which is protect unions, protect workers, and punish corporations that use sweatshop labor, slave labor, and/or export pollution to avoid US regulations.


As it is, the rest of the industrialized world realized long ago that having access to decent health care is indeed a RIGHT. Yes, this certainly means that individuals who have health problems due to their own lifestyle choices get free care, and maybe they don't "deserve" it - though this could easily be debated (especially in the US, where our government supports some of the most health-damaging industries in the nation). The trade-off, however, is those individuals who require care will receive it, which makes the entire nation healthier, which is really only a positive for everyone. No one should be $50,000 in debt because they get hit by an uninsured driver. No one should have to live with terrible tooth pain because they can't afford a dentist (I have several friends who are going through this right now). No woman should have to choose between feeding her children and getting a breast lump examined. Would universal health care be completely "fair" to those of us who eat a healthier diet and avoid using cancerous substances? Of course not. But the benefit far outweighs any sense of injustice. ALL social programs benefit some who don't deserve it. But the benefit to those who truly need the help is priceless.

 

I'm not sure a super president, like Washington/Jefferson/Roosevelt/JFK combined could make that drastic of a change in the economy. Sure, presidents can initiate policies that lead to job creation, but ultimately its the employers who decide whether or not they wish to extend benefits and with the rising costs of insurance, it cuts into profit - the reason why jobs get shipped overseas where labor is cheaper and benefits unexpected in most places.

Don't get me wrong I'm voting Democratic as well as I do feel they represent my beliefs better regarding many social issues, but this transformation you are hoping for isn't going to happen. In order to increase coverage for more americans it will have to be a tax driven social program. I'm not for raising taxes, but reallocating certain aspects of the current budgets and directing them towards social aid for insurance, certainly can happen without you noticing a dent in your pocket.

 

Well said!

 

I know where you stand LaughinWillow. I understand completely. I, of course, don't oppose people who legitimately need it getting healthcare. I don't understand why no one seems to care that there is an epidemic here that can be prevented. This is not some virus that is spread, it is due to unhealthy lifestyles. Are you guys the slightest bit concerned? Our pets are even obese. You see, I see this problem and I think, well we have to encourage people to exercise, eat well, etc. Not, man, we need to get these people healthcare.

Like I said, first things first. Stop the wasteful, expensive war in Iraq, the war on drugs. Then the $ could go to worthwhile things, healthcare being one of them.

Of course, maybe if those with weight problems went to a doctor, the doctor could set them up on an exercise and diet program. I don't know. I just hate people. Why can't everyone be more responsible and honorable. I hate the thought of people abusing systems of goodwill.
You have no idea how many people I know who are overweight and smoke. I tell them (not bitchy, just with concern and not the weight isssue of course, just the smoking) how unhealthy it is and their response- "oh well, you gotta die from something".

 

I oppose socialized health care, greatly oppose it. Why? Because I look at it this way, I am that type of person that never goes to the doctor unless I think I'm dying, I've been twice in the past 7 years, both for school reasons, I don't see why my taxes should have to pay for someone like my sister who goes to the doctor like 20 times a year when nothing that a few hours of sleep can't fix is wrong with her.