Time to Nationalize American Oil Companies!

good idea,

But, how the heck is that possible? How will you get the oil corps to budge with thier massive power?

The oil corporations dominate washington too much, I cannot imagine either party doing it because both benefit from massive financial support from the oil corps..


This is an era where corporations will get what they want no matter what you or I think or believe. Canada's oil was once nationalized and the corporations went around crying and forced the government to privatize.

 

Ok but if America did that how will we avoid the problems that have come with Mexico's nationalized oil? We don't know yet what problems there are with Venezuela's oil industry since Chavez wants to censor the press.


MEXICO'S OIL PROBLEMS

 

There are so many things wrong with this, its hard to know where to begin. I won't bother with the factual errors (Chavez is THINKING of nationalising oil? It was nationalised long before he arrived).

Skip, are you going to come out as a socialist or what? Because nationalising entire industries is NOT a small government approach. Is that what you want? For George Bush or John Kerry to personally run America's oil industry? Maybe then Bush can be more like Chavez, and give several hour speeches on state owned TV every night, and publish lists of everyone who voted against him (google "maisanta list") so they can be denied social services. What is it exactly that you like about Chavez?

And what's next? Why don't we nationalise food, to bring food prices down. And nationalise retailers, so they won't "overcharge". How about property - how about if the government owns all the houses and apartments so nobody pays rent? You know as well as I do that this is called communism and its been tried before. The results were disappointing.

And if we nationalise oil, what are we nationalising? The US imports most of its oil. The oil companies don't own all the reserves behind all the oil they import, refine, and distribute. So if they are paying $75 a barrel now, you can nationalise them and they will still pay $75. What have you accomplished?

And how much are you going to pay to take over this industry? Exxon alone is worth $388 billion. Are you just going to steal it, take every last share from every last pension fund? What is the plan exactly?

And how much are the oil companies actually making? Exxon's profit margin was about 10%. Is 10% really an outrageous profit margin in one of their best years ever? I don't think so. Where do you think your 9% discount (somehow assuming a 1% profit margin is "fair") on gas is going to go when Exxon is run by government bureaucrats? It'll be gone. Take a look as Gazprom or PDVSA - thoroughly politicised, bribe fuelled patronage machines. You want this in the US?

Exxon made $36.1 billion last year - AFTER PAYING $23.3 BILLION IN TAXES. Nationalise it and offer discount prices - no profits, no tax. Yet you somehow think we can cut prices and therefore profits without harming tax income to the IRS, then somehow have profits left to spend on other things. It doesn't add up.

Its just like your idea that we can set a "correct" price where everything will be nice. This is called price controls. Price controls lead to shortages. We've tried this before (and so have many others). Price controls don't work. Demand and supply Skip, if you lower the price then demand goes up. There is no getting around it. Get in line, collect your monthly gas ration.... sounds great.

 

I'd think that one reason Venezuela has gas at that price could be because Venezuela may have enough oil of it's own for the country's oil needs so there may not be a high demand for oil there. America may need to consider expanding it's oil sources along with conservation to help bring down gas prices.

 

Really, hardship? And in Europe where prices are twice as high and incomes are lower, I guess the entire continent must be experiencing severe hardship? Well guess what, it isn't. Americans just don't like to pay for gas. And you think lower prices are going to convince people to trade their Hummer for a Prius, because its a national emergency that americans pay half the european price?

This statement ignores virtually problem I raised in my post. Guess you haven't got any answers.

 

ZERO?http://www.liheap.ncat.org/Funding/lhemhist.htm

 

Or maybe it's time to move on and end our addiction to cheap oil.


we hit Peak in December of '05....

 

Leave it to a conservative to point out that some people have it worse.Well, don't complain that you have to suck four dicks, your neighbor has to suck seven!

Well, that doesn't make it RIGHT, by God! The truth of the matter is that NOBODY should have to put up with such unethical, uber-capitalist HORSESHIT. Not in Europe, not in America.

These oil bastards are making astounding profits off the backs of the poor (as usual) in this goddamned corporate feudal society we live in today.

After millions voted in an OIL MAN for President, and Congress bent over took their spanking from OIL EXECS during the so-called "investigation"... What the fuck do we expect?

Give these assholes a steel-pointed dildo and bend over, motherfuckers!

Maybe when gas gets to be $10 a goddamned gallon, the people may wake the fuck up and revolt against this madness.

 

we dont care how the europeans do it. they did a great job in WW2 ,TOO BAD THEY DID NOT KILL ALL OF THEM SELF !.

 

you claimed zero, who' the fool?

 

Well, you've got a lot more faith in the Democrats than I do, but since they're the only other party in Congress besides the Republicans, I hope you're right.

 

Last i read , his offer was worth 20-25 million dollar's, which is great for those who recieved it, but it's not more than 2 billion.Probably alot easier to do if you are the only share-holder in the company.

 

The democrats and republicans are very similar, but the democrats are the lesser evil. They are both the business party that are influenced by similar forces.

In Argentina the liberal that won the election promising change, reform and such, ended up doing the same thing his predecessor (rightist/con) done. cut public programs, privatize, ect, Watch The Take, and see how the rich trucked their money out, while they left the country in ruin and poverty. When the workers took over the factories and formed collectives not controlled by the government, the bastards were back trying to reclaim their so called property through force.

 

Back to the drawing board.

 

What is "uber capitalist" about a 10% profit margin? What is the "correct" price of oil? Don't you think the countries that actually own the oil - Venezuala, Russia, Iran, Saudia Arabia - have a lot more to do with the oil price than the companies which refine and distribute it? There is one oil price, and it is global. Exxon does not decide what the price of oil is going to be. So ultimately all your accusations and blame land in places like Iran. Places which are far poorer than the US. Can you tell me how much Iran should be selling its oil for so as not to put too much hardship on rich countries like the USA?

Again, is 10% "astounding"? If you ran a very capital intensive, risky business like oil, would you call 10% during a boom year "astounding"? Why isn't the $23 billion in taxes that Exxon paid in 2005 "astounding"?

You need to talk to m6m about your use of imagery.

Revolt against who or what? Against supply and demand? Revolt against reality? Riot in favor of their right to gas at a certain price?

Yes, and gas prices are much lower in the US. And most Europeans are incentivised to drive smaller cars and take public transport because of high gas prices. Yet you are arguing for lower gas prices. Interesting approach. What do you think a survey of environmentalists would tell you about the impact of cheap gas in the US? Care to speculate?

That's a pretty short term measure. Over the last year, the dollar has appreciated 5%. So that's a 5% discount for you. And you have provided absolutely nothing to back up the idea that US oil companies are driving the price up here. Prices are rising everywhere. Oil is going up.

That makes no sense. You're saying that a $3 billion relief program counts for nothing but a $14 million giveaway (12m gallons x $1.2 discount) by Chavez has you eternally grateful? How exactly does that work Skip?

Shouldn't you get the reasoning right first? We're talking about 9 cents a gallon for oil company profits - you're just going after the corporate bogeyman.

Yeah, or maybe politicians promise the moon and when it comes time to deliver there's always a complication called REALITY.

So when the workers stole property, the "bastards" tried to reclaim it? Those Argentinians sure are strange.