I wanted to know what your opinions on this subject was. I know that some people believe that jesus' message of "turn the other cheek" was actually a call for civil disobedience. I know that this is a minority opinion, followed by people that believe in liberation theology, but I was wondering what other christians think about his actual message. Was jesus preaching simple forgiveness for transgression? I personally dont think the civil disobedience interpretation has much validation, in light of all of the other jesus sayings. And, Im also wondering how practical you guys view this teaching. Is this something people can realistically follow?
I dunno, this teaching of turn the other cheek makes sense to me. I rather be slapped in two different places than one place twice.
Jesus stated to turn the other cheek when he was explaining to the Jews how perfect they would have to be to get to heaven by the pratice of the law. After He finished the Sermon on the Mount where He spoke those words, the Jews knew no one could be that good. It was at this point were Jesus was telling the Jews that the pratice of the law would not save them or anyone. Because no one could be that good. Salvation would require something more than following the Law.
You know, the early Christians were pacifists, and remained so until the conversion of Constantine and the institutionaliztion of Christianity. It's not that it's a minority opinion, necessarily. It's just that Christianity ended up adopting so many ways of the world that it got hard to recognize it. Certain Christian groups that are trying to be purists about Christianity still practice pacifism. The whole message of love of enemies and doing good to those that persecute you was a little tough for people to follow, so they discarded it or explained it away. That's really too bad.
I don't remember, but i think it had something to do with if you turn the other cheek (to your Roman oppressor), he'd have to hit you with his left hand. This was an insult, I guess, ancient peoples found the left hand evil (the roman word for left was sinister). But it seems Jesus was using it also in the context of being peaceful, in light of the rest of his ministry. And it's not impossible to be nonviolent. Look at Ghandi and his followers, they were beaten and abused but wouldn't fight back, and eventually even got their way. etymology of sinister: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sinister
It is interesting these original meanings of words and the translations of the bible through the ages. Some read 'heal thyself doctor' and the meaning of doctor at he time of Jesus was teacher. It comes from docere the latin word. To me, heal thyself teacher applies to us all, for we are all teachers to ourselves, at least. And to the statement 'Salvation would require something more than following the Law.' I answer so. The law of men and what is called the law of God are both from men, my opinion. After seeing and hearing over 50,000 visions and conversing with some I have concluded that the telepathic thoughts of living people are the cause. This experience effected me deeply and I sought the answer in religeon. There is no angel of God that talks to me for 3 hours continuously and then tells me she is going away if I don't believe in her. Any angel of God would know that there was no doubt in my intellect that I conversed with a different entity than my own. Even the 5 second trip that seemed to last much longer to take me above the world and see the miracles of all time on Italy and Greece below from that entity were an imagination of mankind. So was the golden ribbon highway that was a many laned path for angels on this world to go to anyplace in the universe. So was the bright star in the far left lane travelling alone on the narrow midas gold hiway ribbon strand a part of mankinds imagination. Astral projection as some call it is a dream awake for me. A space in time when I arrive back at which I marvel I have not left my body, I have just experienced the memory of dream imagination from someone in the past, present or future. This beautiful female entity, that conversed so well for hours, told me that the miracle twinkling lights on Italy were the pontification type and were those times people believed in the love to God when others spoke about this. The miracles that twinkled as stars upon Greece were explained as the edification type. They were those people who took to heart the task of building temples to give a home to the sick and homeless people. This wisdom does not come from God, it comes from the collective consciousness of living people through an energy I saw that may be God. It is telepathic. What causes me some concern is the quanity of physical and mental persecution I have endured these recent last years telepathically from people through what I am guessing is God. Jesus did not want to die, he had many feelings telepathically received just before his death. They were memories of people, innocent and kind, who were slain by the unjust tyrannical people at that time. These memories are carried through the ages by living people deep inside the intellect. I have been constantly receiving this anger and fear. To truly forgive is to no longer be afraid or angry at anything that has happened or is happening now, not just your own experiences. Be humble my wise friends, do not underestimate the power of the one true God as a power of mankind.
my understanding is that Jesus was a pacifist as were his followers as are they still suppose to be. turn the other cheek is only one example. charise mentioned love thy enemy because even the tax man can love his friends and family. forgivness is given to those who forgive.he also preached that love was the greatest gift. to me its obvious that Jesus was teaching pacifism. love.
I have heard of that opinion too, that turning the other cheek, was a sign of civil disobedience. The main Christian take on the saying is that turning the other cheek, is a way of conveying strong believe in brotherly love even though someone has struck you. I would have to say that both meanings can be true simultaneously, depending on social circumstances. It is also written in the New Testament that Jesus came to confirm the law, not to abolish it. Having that been said, there is a popular song recorded in the 1960's, Turn! Turn! Turn!, by the Byrds, which was taken almost word for word from the Bible. I believe it was from Proverbs. Some verses go something like this: There is a time to plant a time to reap. There is a time to laugh and a time to weep. There is a time for love and a time to hate. There is a time for war and a time for peace, I pray it's not too late. So, again it would depend on the circumstances whether or not to actually turn the other cheek. If someone who just set a timer to launch a nuclear missile, then struck me on the cheek, I would do my best to kick his ass and stop the timer. The reason for this is, I couldn't be for sure if turning the other cheek and sending him a message of brotherly love would sink into his psyche fast enough. This the kind of decision someone like President Bush has had to make. I would have done quite a few things differently than him, but still I think people should cut him a little slack. Personally, I think that he should have helped me spread the word about the Woodstock and Dead Sea Scroll Connections. People who base their reasons for causing terror on religion should be made aware of these connections.
The man came to heal and that was suppose to be kept a secret. Some guy he healed and told to tell no one went and bragged on him to the leaders in town. He had to get in the face of the leaders then and tell them their ways were wrong. That is not a pacifist. That is one brave dood. A pacifist to me is someone who lives within a tyrannical political system and says nothing to anyone. The ladies protesting in Iran about womens rights recently and the police coming on beating them up, those ladies who did no violence are not pacifists either. Brave ladies. You wanna talk pacifists, I think there is an important difference between those who try to change things and those who do not. I would not call them all pacifists.
A pacifist is just someone who is nonviolent. Ghandi was a pacifist, but certainly did not live withing a tyrannical political system, doing nothing; instead he engaged in nonviolent protest. You are talking about apathy or resignation, not pacifism.
thanks for the responses. It's just that to me pacifism/civil disobedience would only work in a limited circumstance: where the oppressor wasnt out to annihilate you. but if its someone like the nazis at your doorstep, you better get your gun out, even if you'll die. because the alternative isnt going to be much better. Im interested in this issue for a variety of reasons. But my most pressing is that I feel that we don't really know what Jesus would do once he was in power. and i think that's a huge issue. It's sometimes easier to be the oppressed individual, you have a clear goal and you fight against that. But its a whole nother place when you have the power in your hands. I find that we simply dont know "what would jesus do" once we have power. and for someone like me, who views the whole world in terms of power relations and the abuse of power, that's something that is very lacking. Anyways, like I said, thanks for your thoughts so far
Well, what he said about power was 'he that is first must serve the rest'-it's not really about wondering what he would do, it's about doing what he taught.
"and for someone like me, who views the whole world in terms of power relations and the abuse of power, that's something that is very lacking." then consider this Ozy from your quote.......how bout you and I and any others that want to, abuse some power and like telepathically send back some bad dreams to the power relations abusers? Love and Peace for now, Honor Seed
