Love vs. Hate thoughts and water crystals

Sometimes it helps to be a little sceptical, if you believe everything that comes along you'll end up schitzophrenic. Theres enough religion telling me their right and they have millions of believers. Im going to need some convincing that water is affected by though. Particularly something as chaotic as crystal formation to keep everything else constant enough so that you can reliably say exactly what factors are an influence is far from a trivial task and certainly not 'kitchen science'. The original website gave very little detail on what should have been a very complex procedure.

 

Fat Tony, I think you're saying pretty much what I'm about to say...

Skepticism, to me, is mostly just requiring some sort of evidence before accepting things as fact. I get slightly "set off" when people accept things like this as a matter of faith, rather than requiring proof via experiments with control groups, double-blinds, etc. It would be almost as bad to "test" using the method described, which fails to include any controls that would allow for any conclusions to be drawn.

No matter what the outcome of the "experiment," without additional control provisions, the results are completely meaningless. This "experiment" doesn't meet even the standards that would be required of a child in a school science fair.

I get slightly (VERY slightly!) annoyed when people accept anything on grounds of "faith," and argue that people who don't simply believe without reason are somehow missing something. The act of accepting things as a matter of faith is a huge problem to humanity today. I personally think it's the gravest threat to mankind that we've ever faced.

It seems possible to me that a tendency towards "faith" was probably "selected for" on the savannah, when our hunter-gathering ancestors found a need to move on, despite the great risk they faced in doing so. But in the modern world, faith, whether in God, Jesus, Mao, Stalin, or Bush, is just always a bad thing. Like an appendix, it's just outlived its usefulness and now acts as a hindrance. In the atomic age, it's a hindrance that could lead us to our own extinction.

Sorry about the rant. But I believe it entirely. Maybe I've just developed too much faith in Richard Dawkins

 

Another study showing prayer to have no effect on healing:

http://dukemednews.duke.edu/news/article.php?id=9136

 

bah

who funded it?

did you see the study that proved that all studies are biased?

 

Is it satisfying making a decision then believeing the evidence that supports it, and assuming that all other evidence is flawed? There are some people that still think the world is flat. Still, takes all kinds, though I very much doubt that.

 

If you would have looked at the link...

 

okay, and who are all of those organizations? and what are their mandates? and who funds their payrolls? and is any of that money connected with the pill pushers? and what is their motive?

i still say blah

believe in what you like, that's likely going to be your reality.

 

There is a whole world of genuine research out there if you go to a decent bookstore or library, or online, and it's just such a shame that if you look into it, that this movie smells of propaganda and greed.


The outspoken older lady in it with an air of omniscience, well her name is Judith Hampton and sometime in the 70's whilst being a 'housewife', she changed her name (legally or not, i'm not sure) to "JZ Knight" and had some...odd...experiences.
http://www.nndb.com/people/994/000031901/


She is the leader of what I would call a personality Cult called the "Ramtha School Of Enlightenment", which was made in the 80's and which took her from being a housewife, into a millionaire... All of this, by claiming she is the sole medium for a 35,000 year old spirit named Ramtha, who was originally from a place that no historians acknowledge, called Lemuria, in the pacific ocean. This spirit appeared in her kitchen one day, in 1977, and over a period of time taught her everything she needed to know about Quantum Mechanics and the spirit world etc..

So then, after combining book sales, tv appearances, beguiling celebrities of the time and doing seminars that cost up to or over $1000 each to attend, she became a millionaire and now lives on a $2,000,000 estate.

Each of the film's 3 co-directors are a member of her organisation,
http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index.html
I also remember reading that each of the 'experts' (bar one) who talks in the film is also a member of the Ramtha cult, but as yet haven't re-found the source on that, but it was out there and pretty sure it's true...
The skeptics dictionary does say that "The films’ producers, writers, directors, and a number of the stars are members of her Ramtha School of Enlightenment in Washington" http://skepdic.com/channel.html (someone else linked to this page earlier)


The one expert who is not affiliated with the cult is David Albert, a Columbia University Physics Professor.
He was very surprised and upset at being mis-represented in this movie, as he did not support their claims at all and spent hours in the taped interviews with the moviemakers saying just that. But after a lot of clever editing, he appears on screen to support the consensus viewpoint. Which he does not! http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index.html?pn=2
There is plenty of information on this particular aspect of the movie as it was a bit controversial.


The rest are apparently involved with the Ramtha cult, including Dr. Miceal Ledwith who was a catholic priest well on the way to climbing the rungs of catholic hierarchy, when he stood down on charges of sexual assault. *gasp?!*
The above salon.com weblink also states that he apparently paid a six-figure sum to a man complained of sexual abuse. He is now apparently one of a 'core of appointed teachers' at the Ramtha school. http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/journeytoramtha.shtml

That Dr. Emoto (A Doctor of Alternative Medicine, from The Open International University for Alternative Medicine, India) ice-crystal experiment... Well I would love if it were true but it's more art than science, and has yet to be repeated in any studies or peer-reviewed journals. The studies were not done with much scientific rigour and were not double blind either. The photographs taken which did NOT fit the criteria for looking 'happy' and symmetrical, or 'sad, angry' and fragmented, were never publicised either. There could have been hundreds and hundreds, for every 'one' that seemed to fit with the sticker or emotion it was labelled with. http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

All of this doesn't always mean something is false, it would be great if it was true, but so far it's been unrepeatable by anyone else, and there is a $1,000,000 reward for anyone who CAN repeat these claims! As yet no prize-recipient.
http://www.randi.org/jr/052303.html

It could go on and on, but whenever there is someone living in a mansion, getting rich from charging huge fees for workshops on spiritual advancement, based on knowledge gained by channelling a 35,000 year old spirit from Lemuria, via Atlantis, (who is legally, court-bound to only "channel" through JZ Knight after a successful court-case! lol) well I tend to get a little suspicious... Full credit for being a good actress though. Bravo.

But then they go and make a movie to promote their philosophy, and hey make a lot of money too, with the help of other cult members. Then they don't state the affiliations of the movie directors and 'experts' to the cult, and then they also distort the views of those who don't agree by cunning editing. When a chiropractor is explaining neuroscience and cell division in the human brain...(the latter is impossible) well I should have realised I was being taken for a ride.

It's such a shame too, because genuine research of this nature is fascinating and very important to humankind in the long-term I believe. Perhaps science will one day catch up with spirituality...

So it's the same age-old story of money, greed and a provocative personality, and yes with a sprinkling of good-intentions i'll admit.

Two legitimate research organisations that I can think of, that are doing real work in similiar areas, that don't make anyone rich, and seem quite genuine are

http://maps.org/ - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
http://www.csp.org/ - Council on Spiritual Practises

I am not affiliated with either of them by the way! haha......

 

who are all of those organizations?

http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/

Sorry, couldn't resist

My favorite skeptic site of late is

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/

 

Last wednesday I went to Masaru Emoto's conference! It was really interesting. He has shown that the water become wonderful if she listen to Imagine by John Lennon!!!

 

there are conferences!? how wonderful and lucky you to have been there. tell us more...

 

Thing is, you see, none of this sort of phenomenon will ever work if there are sceptical people (Like James Randl for example) present or involved.

I have, several times in my life, personally experienced healing by various unorthodox means, and I know for a fact that these things work wonderfully, as long as you really believe in them. Simple as that.

Dr Emoto's work is pretty amazing, as is the work of the many sound healers, reiki practitioners, bowen therapists, acupuncturists, cranial osteopaths, feng shui consultants, astrologers and many more.... but you have to surrender and believe, fully. Just that one small change in your attitude will make all the difference to your life

 

^ yeah thats a fact.
remeber about 10 years ago that seriously famous redhead chick who healed so many people? She never made speaches, and seldom even gave interviews, but she was the toast of evangelizem. then one day she had enough and came out and said she was an agnostic and only let them use her so she could help more people. Never heard from her again