I was told to "shut up" and I learned something

Hi, its Mr. Jedi the 'touchy feely' guy again, but hey we can all be 'touchy feely' when we want. The discussion was about Bhagat Singh's atheistic view point, and one of his quotes was that religion is a form of appeasement. This was an interesting scenario, because I had another document by Gandhi (he wrote it, primary source) , where he says that religion is a way to "righteous" living, where you do not agree with unjust laws or regulations and you speak your mind, although you practice self restraint, but then jedi with his idea today was told " Dude, you cannot say a viewpoint is wrong, and in this "club" you learn more by listening than by speaking", I confronted it and said "Wait, but here he disproves it, satyagraha did work!" , some other guy says "listen man, Satyagraha was for lazy people" , "just listen don't talk anymore"... jedi agreed to it, and then these guys started talking about what they feel... and i realized that whatever they are saying is not true to me, as what I was saying was not true to them. A historian who looks at the document might say that Gandhi disproves it, but a philosopher who does not give a damn about Gandhi may not... everything is so relative that when we discuss these things, all of these things need to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

We're always talking past each other here, everyone trying to prove their philosophical POV...no wonder this forum has gone dead.

 

I think there is a time to listen and a time to assert one's own view. It's true that there are different ideas about quite fundamental things.
Truth, it seems, can be apprehended under many forms - for my part, I have no interest in seeking to 'convert' others to my views, nor do I expect agreement necessarily. It's a fact though that in general, people don't like to have their ideas challeneged, or not actually 'their ideas' but ideas with which they've identified.
Also, it seems to me that all internet communications with others who we've never met is a minefield. It irks me at times when younger people with a very limited fund of knowledge, and insufficient experience of life seek to assert as definite truth a particular set of ideas which an older and more experienced person may have been through years ago. The trouble is that words are only a limited part of the ways in which we communicate. With the net, there is no actual contact with the other person, and hence it creates a kind of false ethos, where people may say stuff that if they met the person concerned they would never say. It's also evident to me that being challenged can provoke anger, hostility and so on, again, in a way that perhaps wouldn't occur back in the 'real' world.

I myself am not sure whether or not to continue here. I can't say I have learned very much of any huge significance for me personally, and I doubt anything I've said here has had much benefit for others. I also worry that perhaps one is simply creating doubts in others, who in fact need to work through their own stuff, have their experiences and arrive at their own conclusions regarding these philosophical questions.

The tweedlede/tweedledum type scenario is common here, and myself I think it's a bit pointless.......

 

The Hinduism forum is different from the Christianity forum because there are certain basic precepts that we all agree on; no one here has a militant conversion agenda, atheist agenda, apocalyptic agenda, or absolutely black and white views...there's nothing here to provoke violent squabbles, except when a wierdo like Erasmus ventures here and stirs things up. ...Erasmus, where are you?

It's the extensions of our precepts that get us into disagreements...and yes, I've concluded that the time I would spend constructing an argument here for someone who is going to discard it anyway is better spent in other ways...In that time I could chant a lot of rounds of the Maha-Mantra, do extensive spiritual reading, or...go do something enjoyable with my wife or a friend, work on my car, balance the books, sleep, watch TV, play a computer game, whatever.

From my personal viewpoint, what says volumes of good about this forum and the people on it is that it has been stimulating and challenging, yet has always returned to a friendly and respectful center; enough to keep me on here for two years, and I certainly don't consider the time I've spent here a waste...it's sharpened me up philosophically and I've made friends, which is no small thing...in this era, the internet is a very important medium for reaching out to others.

Bill, this forum does seem to have reached a general impasse...the tweedlede/tweedledum syndrome is in full operation.

 

"it's sharpened me up philosophically and I've made friends, which is no small thing...in this era, the internet is a very important medium for reaching out to others. "

Amen to that Mr. Spook!

 

This is why I've decided not to bother with the endless arguments anymore. Nor listen to them. It is time to drop the pole and finish the leap.

 

Yep, but I hope BBB didn't feel like he is wasting his time here, that was not the point of this post... sorry BBB.

 

I hope that no one took my post as anything but objective commentary ...certainly wasn't being critical of anyone in particular and didn't intend to contribute to anyone's motivation to defect...apologies where due.

What's happened to Ganja Prince?

What we need here is a hot new topic or controversial poster.

 

lol...it will come when its ready....hehehe... we're in chill mode in the Hinduism forum now, methinks. lol.

As for GP...I've seen him here and there on MySpace...but that's about it.

 

Dear Jedi and other friends -

I'm not at all offended by anything anyone has said here - it takes quite a lot to offend me actually, and certainly I don't get offended by anyone's arguments. I think if one takes an objective approach, there is no reason to get offended.
Truth is, I've been having recently to 're-vision' my own position, to use a trendy, new-age turn of phrase. This has come about as a result of the normal course of my inner path - it is nothing at all to do with anything that has been said here by anyone.

I'd just like to add that I think many of the arguments here reflect the divisions within Hindu philosophy in general - topics such as a real vs. an unreal universe, the ultimate destiny of the individual soul, the nature of God, and so on. Hundreds of years of dispute have failed to reconcile the various positions, and I think it's highly unlikely it will happen here.

I assume that anyone who holds any particular position viz a viz such issues has come to that through some serious process, rather than just through caprice, and so I wouldn't really expect agreement. Whilst I do think it is generally good to be ready to have our ideas challenged, I also wonder if at times it can also be harmful. There are many stages on the spiritual path, and it is possible that today's truth becomes tommorrow's falsity - but I also think a person can only move from lower to higher truth in their own time. It doesn't seem likely that it would be on the basis of just some comment by someone else.


God Bless,

BBB.

 

Yes....but isn't it also good to put one's ideas out there?...I mean we can also learn from eachother and each one of us is different people who are at different stages of learning. I know I like reading what you all have to say...and I learn from it and equally when I learn something new, I like to share it. I mean who knows how much "Truth" we all know...but at least we're all companions on the journey to finding out....

 

Hare Krishna !



Love is the ultimate trip (Greengirl) and Love is the answer (SGB).

 

It can be good or it can be indifferent.
And that is because when we come across some teaching or truth 'outside' - in a book, on a forum etc, it can only speak to, or encapsulate for us what we either already know within, or are ready to realize.
One has to be ready to recognize truth.
It is a difficult thing to speak of truth, because different people have a different idea of what is meant by 'truth'.

There is 'truth of the mind' and 'truth of the heart'. The latter is true in a sense different than the former. What is more rare is a truth of the whole being, where mind and heart and energy and united.

There are contradictory ideas held by different people. The destiny of the individual is one such. It seems futile to argue about this, as people seem to have set ideas depending on education, culture, realization etc. I think it's useless to argue because it only makes people even more entrenched.
The same goes for other related questions. There are different views.
One can only state the truth as one sees it. Others see it differently, and so begin the interminable arguments.

As you say, we are all on a journey. I am glad if anything I've posted here has been of interest. In my case, I feel I've reached a stage in my life where I just don't have any more time to examine these arguments. I have my own direction, and I can only move in the direction I feel, on the basis of my previous and present experience is right. I'm happy to say what I think, or to share information which may be of interest to others,and that's as far as I want to go. I don't want to argue endlessly about things such as if we will eventually become God, or if we'll be with him as a distinct being. Let's just say I have my own conclusions with regard to these questions, and I think each one must find their own answers.

 

There is no doubt that your presence here has benefited everybody
in numerous ways....

 

Thanks HH - I much appreciate your saying so....looks like I've decided to stick around anyway, but avoid repititious arguments.....

 

Yup..get the message
Let peace prevail for now.....

 

"man shall be free when the last monarch is strangled with the entrails of the last priest" voltaire