Christianity in America and Europe

It's becoming clearer and clearer to me that there are big differences in Christianity, what it represents, and what reactions it engenders in people in the USA and in Britain and Europe in general.

In the UK, there are no TV evangelists, or if there are, they're on at about 9.00 AM on a sunday for half an hour. In general, religion is not associated with any political group or attitude here. Even the idea that used to be common coin when I was a child, that Britain is a 'Christian' country, is these days seen as politically incorrect, given the multi-racial and muti-cultural reality of the situation.
In short, it is not politicized here as it is in America, nor are questionable brands of the thing 'in your face' to anything like the extent.

Most people here couldn't care less for religion - it is a very secular country, where people don't 'cover up' the fact that their main interest is in consumserism as they seem to do in America.
Where religion is in the public eye, it is only in a very small way.

So anyway, to me some of the anti-Christian stuff I see in here seems whacky and over the top. It just isn't something that excites the same passions over here as it seems to in the US. I think many of the anti-Christians here are actually more anti the US establishment than anything else. And perhaps what amounts to 'dumbed down' versions of Christianity.

I should perhaps add that to me, the American right wing etc who call themselves Christians are sadly deluded.

Just a few thoughts.....

 

Mankind can't leave well enough alone. We want to put our selfish desiers above the will of G-d. I don't need to recite any history books for you. You're well aware of all the bad things done in the name of G-d...Sadly those things were done by Man hiding behind religon...We want to stretch,hide, erase, change, and ignore what dosen't cope with our life...Money, Greed, Selfish Desires, and the unwillingness to speak up and change things get in the way of Christ's will for our unity.

 

People want religion and I think Christ wanted realtionship and spirituality.

 

Never said ALL people wanted religion now did I . Come on now your smarter then that!

 

Well, I think it's probably because some seek to ursurp Christianity (and other religions) and use them for their own ends. That began, in the case of Christianity, when it became the state religion of the Roman Empire.
Divisions in interpretation soon became politicized, and hence the first big split between the Catholic and the Orthodox.
Likewise, much of the protestant reformation was politically motivated (100% politically motivated in England) and hence more division etc, and so it went on as it does still.
And now, in the modern world, perhaps there's an element of capitalist type competition between denominations - so to prop that up, the divisions must be kept alive at all costs.

That's on one level. Also, I think that in general, people are too inclined to a dogmatic approach - which usually says all others are wrong. There are too many attempts to interpret the Bible along narrow and logical lines - but in essence, it doesn't really lend itself to such an approach. I think originally Christianity was a 'mystery' religion. The truths it seeks to express can't be expressed other than in symbolic form.

Add to that the obvious but actually very un-Christian self righeousness of some 'Christians' (I mean, how could they be wrong?) and it's not surprising that there is division.

 

I know why you said it and It dosen't bother me. Though I think if you want people to stop treat'n you a certain way you shouldn't turn around and act the same... I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. But "I did it cause they did it first" is kind of childish and blows a lot of your creditbilty out of the water.

But! its done with and no use on dwelling on the past

 

My impression is that Europeans, generally speaking, perhaps incorrectly speaking, see Americans as being billigerent. We tend to fight fire with fire, and it's easy to forget to put down the flamethrower, so to speak. Everything's so competition driven, even your point of view seems like something you have to force down other people's throats or you 'lose'. To me it seems that way, anyway.

It is quite literally insane over here. Pat Robertson preaching assassination...Jerry Falwell going on crusades against gay puppets... You definitely get a false impression of things. Imagine that you were stuck here in America, if you can...have you ever seen that painting "The Scream"? :O

Agreed. If you look at the Bible symbolically its truths become self-evident and carry much more weight. It'd be nice to get more Americans to see it this way.

 

Myself I have nothing at all against Americans as such. There are many belligerent types here too, but they tend to express themselves through other things than religion.

From what little I've seen on TV about some US preachers and churches though, I know I'd find it hard to cope with.

 

Bill...since my teenage years in the mid 60's I've seen evangelical Christianity go from southern white working-class tent-revival to mainstream. IMO the most important impelling figure in this transformation was evangelist Billy Graham...he was of the same era as Martin Luther King and the Beatles, and his message spread the same way...through television, which by 1960 was affordable enough here for just about everyone, including the poor and minorities, to have a set.

The evangelical culture is pretty all-pervasive in the USA now...especially in the south. When I was a teenager, there were organized off-campus religious programs for those that wanted to attend but kids didn't proselytize in school like they do now, and religion was openly flaunted in very few businesses...that has changed now as well...you don't get fired for being a Hare Krishna or Buddhist but you will get into lots of unsolicited "discussions" with co-workers if you let your affiliation be known.

The good thing is that Constitutional separation of church and state is firmly entrenched in our national consciousness and the conservative supreme court that Bush put into place isn't going to try to change this basic provision, even though there could be decisive action on Roe vs. Wade from the court. And, we've got only 2.5 lyears left of now-lameduck Bush and he's gone.

As far as living with it goes...we don't have a Talibanesque atmosphere here in the southern USA; the fundies are a very vocal and often-obnoxious minority, but the reality is that it's a big and diverse country and one can walk past those that he doesn't want to associate with or hear out.

 

I grew up in the Midwest and don't really notice a difference between here and there, except you see more Jesus fish on cars here. It's true that you don't get into, or I haven't gotten into, any direct religious confrontations in public.

We have the internet now, though. We twenty-somethings grew up with it. If you separate 'the internet' from 'the public' everything seems almost normal, but not quite. At least not to me. In public people know better than to spout off to complete strangers. The thing is that now we all have a vague notion of what's lurking underneath the surface, and I for one can feel that. I don't know if everybody else does, but there seems to be a lot of mistrust. I was only born in the 1980's, though, so I don't really know how it was before the internet.

 

You make an excellent point. And, i think you are correct. Of COURSE no one can win, and is this really what all this debate is about? Winning? For me its not, lol, its the taking part that counts hehehehehhe
Seriously though, for me its about entering into debating, learning and sharing what i've learnt and just discussing. I am not here on some crusade to win over people to my faith and i'm not here to win any brownie points with God or Christians.
I would say that when bad things happen its because people have twisted chrsitianity to suit their desires (whatever they may be) its kinda like a scapegoat. "Well, uh yeh people died but its ok God told me to do it" Its not right but i cant change that, which is heartbreaking. My heart breaks for these people.
Similarly thought different Christians see things in different ways. Not all christians are going to be the same, if that was so then we really would be the blind robots that everyone thinks we are, and thats just not true for example i'm not the same as nathan (thank goodness jk) lol but what im getting at is that yes there are divides in the nit picky bits of our religions, but we are ultimately united in faith; we all love the same God. At the end of the day our interpretations of the bible, our rituals, our little things that niggle us about eachother are shadowed as we are united byt the same God. It is wrong that we are divided, but Churches are beginning to be called up on this issue, they are realising that each of us is different. In my home town, we even have "united services" where all the Christian denominations have a service together to show that we respect eachother. This is spreading across the country, all over England people are beginning to do the same.

that is all.

Roly

 

It's a paradox in a way - here in the UK where there is an official state church with the Queen as it's head, religion has virtually no impact on politics, whilst in the States, with its constitutional guaruntees, it seems that religion does impact much more on the govt. especially under GWB. At least, that's the way it looks from over here.

I don't get the impression though that the USA is at all 'talibanesque' - I think probably America and Europe are similar in many ways overall, in that both are really pretty free places by international standards.

What I don't think you'd get here is a political leader making capital out of being a so called 'born again christian'. As I say, even the idea that Britain is a christian country is really seen as verging on political incorrectness these days. Blair said something after 9/11 about both Christians and Muslims being 'children of Abraham' - and for it, he was ridiculed in the press. One can't imagine any UK politician ending a speech with 'God bless Britain'.
They'd have the head of the Muslim Council of Great Britain and probably others 'expressing concern'.

In some places in the UK with large Muslim populations, the ringing of church bells on a sunday is now banned. A woman in Bradford was made to remove a display of china pigs from her window because it was offending Muslims. That's more the direction things are going here. I do worry a bit that one day, there may be a right wing back-lash. (not that the extreme right here are in any sense trying to ally themselves with any church or Christianity in general) Already, there is a controversial court case where the leader of the right-wing British national party has said that Islam is "a wicked and vicious religion". So we've got our problems over here - but they're quite different I think from those in America.

 

That's got to be a positive thing. Still, you have to admit that it is only a small minority of Brits who ever attend a church at all, other than weddings and funerals.
If you do a survey, the majority in Britain will say they're Christians, but actually, they are Christains only nominally. They don't actually practice it.

It seems to me that overall, Britain is moving away from its Christian past. Since I was a child in the 60's so much has changed even. Everything from diminishing church attendance to no religious education in schools to no more quiet sundays (thank Mrs. Thatcher). It also seems to me that people here in general are more selfish and materialistic than ever.
It's a shame, as Britain has a rich spiritual heritage.

 

From what i've seen its totally different from what you say. Especially fin the youth sector. Young people are becoming more and more alive for christ...its awesum! anyways...

 

Check out the stats sometime -they speak for themselves.

 

statistics are numbers on paper. they change every day. what ive seen manages to speak for itself to me too its rather great.

 

Facts are facts. In the UK only a miniscule percentage attend church, and the numbers are in continuous decline. Only 7.9% of the population of Britain go to church.

Lots more here http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentViewArticle.asp?article=1826

 

i think that you have missed my point. Who cares about church, what bearing does it possibly have on faith? Going to church doesnt make u a christian, faith does though, and lots of people have faith. Statistics on the amount of people who go to church really has no bearing on my point at all.

I appreaciate you going to the trouble to find the stats tho

 

I agree that church attendance is one thing and inner faith another. However, what I wanted to try to show in this thread is the difference between Christianity in the US and Europe. I think in America church attendance is much higher.

Also, US politicians seek to ally themselves with various churches - something that just doesn't happen here, as it would probably be political suicide.

Once upon a time, most people in Britain went to church regularly. Back in the Elizabethan era, it was compulsory.To me, the decline in numbers indicates that Christianity is nothing like as big here as it once was, and nor does it have much influence on society in general these days.
I agree that on a personal level, it isn't a necessity to go to church.