Yes, They Still Exist.

I am glad that works out for you and your guy and I am sorry about your mom and your dad. What I need in a relationship and what I need in order to respect a guy and be a loving partner is entirley seperate though. I do not expect a guy to pay my bills. I make a very nice living for my age and even in the past when I did not I was uncomftrable with the notion of somone doing that outside of marriage. I don't have to sit here and defend myself. I have a kick ass job that I love, get to travel around the country, have had a lot of exposure for my age and I need someone who can be happy for me and not threatened by that and because I can be insecure I need somone pretty attentive. I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with knowing what you want or what you need from relationships. Guys know what they are getting themselve's into when they date me it's not like I pretend to be this low-maitenece person. And who are you to say I can't be giving because I expect a lot?


QUOTE=Apples+Oranjes]Suncatch: Sorry if it seems I misrepresented you in anyway, my apologies... I just tend to get a little fiesty with things such as this.

It drives me nuts, not solely because of tradition, but because of the shallowness that usually seems to accompany it. If a woman wants to take on a traditional role, and be a stay at home mom/housewife...that's cool with me; but when women start expecting gifts and nice houses and clothes and what not... it just disgusts me. To me, that's not what a marriage or committment should be about, it should be about love.

"And I have a rule if a guy does not send flowers with in the first two months it's over. If he doesn't care enough about me to figure out what I want and put in a little bit of money and effort than what the fuck am I doing wasting my time."
That really did it for me. That just blew your whole point, lynsey. I could have seen your point of view and was starting to, up until that last little factoid. Sick, it made me want to throw up in my mouth a little. I'm pretty sure a guy can still care about you without buying you flowers...

Beggers can't be choosers, hunny. I don't care if you have 5 years on me, don't talk to me like I'm a little kid and that I don't know what's going on in the world.

YES, I realize you need money to survive, and live, and have shelter... and NO, I wouldn't allow my fiancee to sit on the couch all day while I'm at work, but I'm also not going to force him into college or a lucrative career. If my fiancee was perfectly happy working at McDonald's, I would let him be, and love him all the same. As long as he is making an effort to work with me as a TEAM...

By the way lynsey, even though it shouldn't matter to you, yes, I do have a full time job, and I make 10 dollars an hour, and my boyfriend also works full time and we're moving out together in the summer. And I'm really happy with it, I can pay my own bills, and if he ever needs help paying something I help him with it...and if I ever need his help, I know he'll help me too. I don't like having men pay for things for me, and I never did, since I started dating. I always insisted on paying for myself, or if they paid for me, I would pay the next time for the both of us...

To me, that's a relationship, because you're working with each other. There was a long period of time where my hunny was unemployed...and I paid for a lot of things, and yes, it got irritating at times...but it would never make or break our relationship for me... I still loved him all the same, and I knew that because he loves me too, he would put forth the effort to find a job, and start putting less pressure on me financially...and he did. And since he got a job, he has been really good about helping me out too.

And yeah... whatever, I guess you're just a whole different kind of person than I am, because I honestly just have never been the sort of person to set up expectations like that. If my man wants to take me out, and does, then it makes it all that much more special because I wasn't expecting it. To me it takes the sweetness out of all of it when you begin to expect things...

Whatever. I never seem to agree with you, so let's just leave it at that. I'm a pretty realistic person in most respects, but when it comes to relationships and love, that's not something you should be fucking around with.... you're dealing with another person... another person with feelings, and thoughts just like you.

Sure a lot of guys get the careers that they do to impress a lady or find a wife, etc... but I also see a lot of those guys end up to be unhappy. I see a lot of those guys end up having affairs with a woman who's wild about him, rather than a woman who demands things out of him... I see a lot of those guys end up getting divorced because the more the woman starts to expect things out of him, the more she becomes disappointed and dissatisfied with the marriage. And I'm not generalising, because I realize it's not like this for EVERYONE...

But I have witnessed it firsthand, between my mother and father. He ended up building a house so big, just for her, and within a couple years after it was built... she left him, because she still wasn't getting what she wanted. [Oh and not the part about having an affair...my father was always faithful]

That whole attitude sickens me and scares me...and I've seen the emotional turmoil it has put my dad through...even BEFORE the problems started, and before the divorce... it was stressful for him to have to be working all day, and giving her all the benefits while she stayed at home with me and such. It was damaging to their marriage as well, because he never got to spend quality time with her, because he came home from work, beat, and fell asleep instantly... and ultimately was too stressed when he was awake.

And yeah, like I said, I realize it's not always that way. But, remember men have feelings too...they aren't just there for support, and gifts... they want love and respect and nurturing as well.[/QUOTE]

 

hmmm weren't you just talking about how you had to go to chritian college because you could not finance your own way through a non-religous school...sounds like money is pretty important to me.

 

roflmao

Tha's a rosy idealistic take on real life. Try telling the doc, dentist, surgeon, that next time you need help from them. Granted, what you listed is free assuming you have a significant other, that you don't need to buy a CD or have access to electricity for the radio, and that you live in the mountains and have hiking gear. All of which costs money. And YES, some money is good to have. I will agree with that 100%. Make your own money? So, that's why you have the expensive copy machine, eh??

 

not have to work to make a living

When was the last time you managed a household, handling accounts receivable/payable, managed medical care, food services, home maintanance, housekeeping, laundry, provided transportation, day to day responsibility of teaching/guiding/nurturing children, all on time every single day?

That is work, btw.

 

true

but what becomes important when a loved ones health/life is jepordized due to lack of $$ to pay for health/medical care? LOVE will not get you through that one.

 

That's not important. I wouldn't go to collage if I had the money. Jimmy Carr once said "Some people say the best things in life are free, but those people are hippys and they think the best things in life is sex with other hippys". I don't know what that has to do with anything, but I liked it.

 

there is no NEED to stay at home all day. excuse only works for so long.

my

spoken with the infinite wisdom of somebody who has obviously been in that very same situation herself AND SHE IS ONLY 19 YEARS OLD roflmao

 

some women don't want to work? as in for a paycheck and they work at home all day taking care of home/familr OR as in couch princess on ass all day doing nothing but her nails? Just wondering.

Would like to see acceptance for us all but that won't happen as long as the youngsters know it all and we old folks are too old to know much of anything. Hey, lets compare retiremant plans, 401K, Roth, kid's educational funds, health care accounts, pay and benefits--money ain't everything but without enough of it you have little to nothing for the above things I just listed.

 

wow

big assumption that Grandma is available or wants to be your childcare provider

if she does this you WOULD pay her the going rate, right???

hope your possible future child is ready for daycare

if that is the norm for you as a child how would you know if you were neglected or deprived? not having the other to compare it with...

why pay a day care worker to raise your kid

no daycare worker, no matter how wonderful, will ever love or take care of children like parents would, assuming fit to be parents

 

Those are my thoughts and opinions, and if you don't like it, fine... but you don't have to put me down because of my age.

That's funny too, because did you ever stop to think there are 19 year old mothers???

 

What the hell?!

that post was intended to point out that there are all different kinds of people who want and lead different sorts of lives, and that I accept that...

The only reason I even got pissed in the first place is because of the way people were attacking those, like myself, who don't feel that money is that big of a deal....

I have no problem with the way people live their lives, as long as they don't try to force their beliefs down my throat, or tell me that I'm wrong, or that I'm immature or irrational for having different priorities and beliefs and opinions than they do. It really struck a fucking cord with me, when I, and a couple others stated that money didn't really matter to us, and right away someone had to jump on it and basically laugh and say that we were childish for saying that.

Get over it. If you want to pick apart every word I say and turn it into something personal, go for it, but this part you replied to ESPECIALLY was the complete opposite of what you, apparently, wanted to make of it.

 

I apologize for going off on what you said, and being rather harsh. Honestly. I think I might have taken some of it the wrong way, and if I did, I'm sorry.

It just irritates me when people think that others with ideals, ideals that aren't the same are being silly. As long as you respect my opinions, I'll respect yours.

I think everyone kind of blew this thread out of proportion...and honestly, the point of the matter is... the girl in this thread, had a reason to be offended--- not because her and the woman she went out with had differing opinions, but because of the way that woman tried to shove her beliefs onto starcatch, and basically tell her she was living her life "wrong"

And then, that point, sort of erupted in this thread. I will admit, and won't lie, that I'm sure I said things and came across that same way... but as did most of you, so let's just put some peace to the matter, I say.

[/QUOTE]

 

staying home and raising my kids is the most demanding job I've ever had...and the most rewarding. I will not be sending them off to daycare or public schools just to return to the ingratitude of corporate slavery. Homeschooling is very very important to me. It is not the government's place to decide how and what my children are taught. I will continue to raise them and educate them, that *is* my job and I like to think I'm very good at it. It is my husband's job to make the money to pay our bills. We could have two incomes, and live with more things, but we don't need things, we need Mama home with the kids. It's not an excuse, it's the truth.

 

Seems like everyone in this thread just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...*20 pages later*...and on and on and on. I'm going to take this thing to the big levels. I'm really going out on a loooong limb for this one, but do I dare say it? I think that I will say it. Ching is fo' da gooch man. *waits in fear of the money lovers*

 

I don't understand why this is such an offense to you, personally... I was replying to a guy, my age, who seemed to think he knew what I would do with my life, more than I would. I spelled it out for him... I told him what I wanted to do with my life, and that I wanted to work towards that. I explained that unplanned things may happen, but for SOME of those unplanned things, I have an idea of the way I would go about taking care of it.

And, this reply offends me to a point considering you make it sound as if it is a bad or wrong way to parent.... and seeing as how my parents did this with me, I take a little offense to it as if you dont think my parents knew what the hell they were doing, or what? No matter what ever happened in my parents marriage, they were always good to me, and I'm very happy with the values they raised me with, and the sort of person that I turned out to be because of those values.

I may have been with my grandma a lot, or in after school daycares, but when I look back on my childhood, it's not my grandma I remember, it's my parents.

I knew they were the ones raising me, and caring for me, no matter who watched over me during their work hours.

There's nothing I cannot stand more, than mothers who compare themselves to other mothers, or think they are so much better because they did this or that. There's nothing I cannot stand more than mothers who are certain they know EVERYTHING simply because they were mothers, or mothered a certain way.

Yeah, you may have had different or "more" life experience than I have, but the attitude you have about those experiences stinks.

And just because I'm 19, doesn't mean I don't have a fucking clue of what I want to do, or don't want to do with my life, somewhat ....

I would hope that you don't treat your kids as if they don't have minds of their own, the way you sure are treating me.

Just because someones younger than you, doesn't make them less intelligent or opinionated, etc.

 

And that's cool. Honestly, that's awesome... I'm just saying, I myself could never do it.

And I think it's cool that your home schooling them, total props for that...

I wasn't even referring to women like you, I hope you realize... I have seen you around the forums, and respect you and the things you do for your family.

But whether or not you do a lot for your family whilst at home, there ARE women who take advantage of the option and abuse it... and I'm sure you know that. And THOSE are the kind of women I'm saying that I can't understand....

And, before anyone says anything about my age again, the reason I know mothers/housewives that truly do abuse the option exist, is from some of the friends I've had, and hearing and seeing the way their home lives were. Some of these kids moms literally layed in bed all day while the kids cleaned for them...and I'm not even close to exaggerating.

My fiancees mom recently got a job, but until that point, the whole two years I have been with him, she has been unemployed, though, both of her kids are adults, and gone at work all day---- and though her husband does all the cooking and cleaning. She literally spent her time watching TV and smoking pot all day while her husband was at work all day, everyday except Sunday. And he would come home from work, cook dinner for her and my fiancee and whoever else was there, and she still had the nerve to complain about the quality of the food, or what he made. And when he attempted to help with the one thing that she does, laundry, she made a fuss because he shrunk a shirt, and didn't even so much as thank him. And THAT is the sort of thing that makes me sick to my stomach.

I may not have the experience that some of you ladies do, but I have the experience of being submerged into a few different home lives between my best friend, my own family, and my fiancee. And I'm quite pleased with the way my parents raised me after experiencing the other side... The side where women GIVE housewives a bad name. I never said any of you were that way...

And yeah, I'm old enough and smart enough to see that people like my fiancee's mother are ungrateful, spoiled, and lazy, and that's the exact thing that I'm referring to, and want to work towards avoiding. And I hope, and am quite sure, that most of you would agree there...





And I also wanted to say, I can't get over how cute your kids are mamaboogie. They are adorable. And I'm not just saying that to suck up or anything, lmao, I always think that everytime I see a post from you.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with knowing what you want in life.

And I have nothing but the utmost respect for stay-at-home-moms, and the WORK that they do. I am in awe of many of you women on these forums, and the strength you demonstrate.

But, in order for those children to be raised in a loving, caring, nurturing environment, I still think ETHICS and VALUES are more important. I don't think it would be right to just go out looking for someone who makes enough money to support the family you want, and then just create that family.

Instead, find someone who shares your ideals, your values, your way of life. Find someone who has the same/similar/compatible goals as you. Find someone who you can be happy with in this way. If both of you have goals involving making the money to create a loving safe home in which to raise children, that will become a priority in BOTH your lives.

But, money can come and go. What's more important is finding someone with whom you are compatable, and happy with. Someone who will continue to love and cherish you (and future children) even if hard times should arise. It's much easier to come up with money than it is to find true, LASTING , love. It's the "lasting" part that I want to emphasize here, because if a relationship is dysfunctional and seems troubled, children will not make it any more stable. In fact, they will most likely make it less stable, and mother and children can the find themselves on their own.

 

Right, I agree.

Most of the women on here, I admire for what they do.... and I'm sure their kids are some of the happiest kids alive and what not.

But yeah, the original argument about true love vs. a comfortable situation... I guess "love" is a matter of opinion to many people... and it is. There are people who believe love can happen just like that, love at first sight... other people believe in being realistic, rather than finding someone that you may deeply connect with... some believe in love so little that the situation matters more than above all, and other people are careless with love and love everyone or think they do... etc etc etc etc. There are many different ways that people see love, and it's hard to continue with a debate like this, when it is just a wide open topic.

But the kind of love I'm talking about... the kind that I want to have for the rest of my life, is unconditional love.... unconditional love where I know he will love me if I do happen to lose my job and have a hard time getting back on my feet [and that I'd do the same for him] or that he will love me whether I weigh 500 pounds or 90 pounds... or if I am in jail for 10 years, that he will still be there, supportive, waiting for me, and vice versa, etc etc etc.

Many people might think I'm naive to have this attitude, but that's not the case... I understand that with this sort of life, it takes a lot of work. My fiancee and I have already been through a lot of difficult issues together, that many of my friends have stated, they couldn't deal with, or that, they would never have the patience that both him and I, with each other, do.... But, I feel like it's worth it. And I feel that he is the person that I am going to always love for better or for worse, no matter how he "turns out".... whether he ends up TO be a rich lawyer, or a thief in jail [lol... exaggerating for point purposes, of course] I love him like I love my parents in the respect that, he will always be forgiven, and supported no matter how much I disagree. And I know he does the same for me. And to me, those classic marriage vows "for better or worse, for sickness and in health" etc translates into that unconditional love that I'm talking about. I want somebody that I know will stick with me and not leave me no matter what happens, or who I become, or what I turn out to look like, or if I get sick, or if I go mental...lol, and if I want to ask for all that, then I need to find someone I feel the same about. Dig?

I realize and understand that a lot of people can't and WON'T do this, or don't see it that way... but, this is the way that I'm happiest, and I like it that way.

I guess I'm one of those people who do believe in "soul mates"....and I feel like it's more important to find that person, the other half, than it is to find a good situation.

But, that IS just my opinion.... and regardless if you agree or not, I respect whichever path you want to take as well. Unless... you truly are a gold digger or something... lol, I highly doubt any of you are, and am not assuming... but yeah, to any women actually like that, it's gross to me.

 

wow, i go for an hour and I come back and its a completely different discussion. Apples+oranges,what was the point of your discussion again?

 

My point again, was, I have my period and am royally irritated by pretty much everyone in general today, so I come on the internet to type and rant and get all my feelings out so that I don't take it out on people that are actually close to me and what not.

No, really, I mean 98% of what I say [although I did apologize once or twice, because I realized I was a little rude to lynsey, and felt bad about that] but it's probably pronounced in a more rude-ish way than it normally would be, because I am feeling irritable and would rather rant about how I feel on here than at my loved ones

See? I could even rant about that for a long time.