The USA is nothing but a collection of corporations

They should be spending money on buying some hospital beds and school books, not wasting it by spying on billions of people. Why the fuck do we obey laws if our governments disobey them, or twist them?

 

I rest my case on this one - let the people decide - all we can know for certain is that its not a lunatic conspiracy theory its a fact - we paid the USA back its cash that it wanted for stopping Fascism in Europe - now theyve pulled us into the most corrupt and gansterish form of politics the world has ever known. Its the usa againsyt the world
One symbolic statement of this - is that when the world trade centre fell
the biggest building in new york became the empire state building

 

Your going to tell me to shut the fuck up and then expect me to give the least bit of thought to the rhetorical musings of your warped propaganda ridden little intelect? Your too naieve to warrant the effort required to enlighten you. Read brother, Read.

 

Why is the person who agrees with the govt. (at least in some areas) always blinded by propaganda? Perhaps it is you who is blinded by the false ideas of the minority (in this case).

 

Virtually NO modern Large Industrial nations are a good example of any form of government, they are all either Western or influenced/perpetuated by western society, therefore they are all merely grainy duplicates of the United States. Western society only continues to prosper because of exploitation of weaker governments, installing puppet democracies in third world countries, raping thier naturall resources, corporate america/europe dominating all trade, therefore determining the quality of that countries subsistence, forcing the people into poverty and reliance on aid, therefore giving the aid-givers carte-blanche influence over thier government a vicious cycle. Western society, specifically the US and the UK, practice controlled indoctrination of thier people with a bilateral attack, complete and total control and influence of all major media outlets, as well as complete and total control over the curriculum and standards of learning involved in "legal education", even going so far as to askew the details of, and in some cases rewriting entirely certain aspects of history. Western society or as you call it "industrialized nations", are simply a leach on the world, sucking up all of the resources, exploiting human beings for profit, enslaving world society as a whole with mindless media indulgence, sub par education standards, and plenty of distractions, phony drug wars, phony wars on terrorism, holy wars, all at the expense of maintaining a FAT defense budget in order to pay for ARROGANT aspirations of world conquest, government run drug trade, and let's not forget corporate news, all of the while giving people an infallible sense of self worth and comfort, making it highly unlikely that they will ever wake up, realize that 90% of the wealth is held by 10% of the PEOPLE, that they are being EXPLOITED through labor and a vicious system of consumerism making human biengs not realize thier networth, essentially turning them into walking commodities.

--yeah..........the united states has done an outstanding fucking job i guess..........you must be a rich neo-con to swallow that drivel.

Examples of non-CORPORATE(industrialized)nations that have done a better job, sure
the Iroqouis -who your "founding fathers" stole the majority of THIER "ideas" for how government should operate/run from. (3 branches, democracy, voting)

the Aztecs- until montezuma sold them out to the spanish, they were a great bustling society, an exemplary form of government, also the one your "founding fathers" stole the majority of THIER "ideas" regarding executive protocol, and legislative rules and regulations (including the idea of impeachment).

both of these societies advanced and enhanced the intellect, freedom, and quality of life for all of thier people, something that can never be said about the united states or any other "industrialized" nation.

 

^^^ True but Western nations had their own intellectuals with such ideas!

 

Yeah there's a taker, and you're took, dude.

What the USA has developed in the way of world economics, was in fact, actually originally introduced to the world by Great Britain, and employed magnificently during the heyday of the Empire. (check your Asian history some time)...the opium wars, the Ghandi revolt, etc.

I, um - am not an American (although I could fool many if I wanted to - but that is only because I'm probably more adept at that cultural specific than many Americans are.)
I do have a spot of British blood in me - so I don't mind taking potshots once in awhile - all's fair in blood and gore.

Back to your original challenge - I think you sort have have it half-right, in a weird kind of way. Corporations do have something to do with it.
But you see, these corporations aren't exactly American.
The way it works resembles the way terrorists seem to operate, these days.
An international gang of them get together and plot their evil escapades, but claim no particular allegiance to any specific nationhood (although often enough, they do claim devotion to specific religious beliefs and tenets.)

I think you've probably figured out by now where I'm going with this:

Corporations have morphed into truly international bodies of power and socio/political influence. This is not exactly something new, but especially since the demise of the Soviet Union, they have indeed ramped it up quite a bit.
What they do is export their wealth to places in the world where governments can't get at it. (for taxes, polution penalties, and various other schemes devoted to the idea of supporting the "public" realm.)
Corporations hate the public realm - with a great passion.
And because governments are kinda stuck with supporting a public realm - well, you can see how the battle lines are drawn....
I mean - that's how a government gets elected in the first place! (assuming it is a relatively free society - at least posing as a democracy.)

So in the great wide world of free trade, laissez-faire mercantilism, globalization, cheap labor, captive markets, and all the rest of our time-honored best efforts at a new world order....corporations have indeed come out on top.
But the biggest and best of them (or worst, as the semantics may be) are beyond national identity.
Oh sure - they'll wave a flag when it suits their purpose. But they are hardly devoted to any particular national cause.
What they are devoted to - is their profit margin (and keeping their shareholders happy.) This makes the market happy. This makes the stocks go up. This makes for a tiny little bunch of upper elite corporate hoggish and very inhumane beasties who oink oink oink all the way home.....(with frequent stops at the bank.)

So like I said, you got it half right. Go ahead and spew venom in their direction.
But don't ever kid yourself that they represent the average American - or about 97% of Americans, for that matter.
They don't.
They rather hate Americans. This should be obvious. They hate them so much that they took away their blue and white collar jobs, used to support the middle class lifestyles that put America on the map in the first place (once the envy of the world...) - and gave them all away pennies to the pound - to China, India, etc.

You'd be surprised to find how many Americans really don't like them for that.
Or how many Americans have actually disconnected from American corporate icons, logos, branded identities.

The Gibson guitar was used extensively to promote a specific American sound and sell it around the world.
They're no longer made in America.

I don't believe you understand what defines America, or an American, any more than I can define Jolly Olde England or any particular chappie I might bump into in Picadilly.
It's just pawns on a chessboard, mate.

-which opens up a whole new fascinating avenue for debate, I would think.

later-

 

I dont see how as most of what follows that supports the original statement.
So anyway there is no antipathy toward your argument - well very little antipathy.

Yes, like having a president that owes his allegiance to Halliburton and the other corrupt corporations that the Bush family are in league with.

No I dont see - I cant see there is any dissimilarity, between Cheney and his corporation, Halliburton. He and bush are lining its pockets with the public purse -why ? because that is who they represent

well I never said they did - infact thats what I'm saying - they dont represent anyone but themselves -so why is it they insist on having a national anthem - since the US gov is just a bunch of corrupt corporate swindlers. They even swindled people out of their lives so Halliburton could get richer by taking soldiers to war - US soldiers but for the profit of a few corporations.

I didnt say I could define a nation - thats the point of the whole thread
do you know what "?" means ?
its a question mark - from which I put the proposition - "there is no such thing as a nation - " In the case of Britain - the USA - Europe
we have nothing to call a nation - the whole point of this thread is because nationhood cannot be defined - so maybe people are misled into thinking it does - so you will fight for a bunch of arseholes who make dollars at the loss of your life

 

Patriotism is a wild card that nations, or rather corporations, have been using to do their dirty work for them. Throw in an a bit of paranoia against other cultures, and your average patriots will walk through a minefield without realizing just who they are sacrificing their lives for. It's not an American phenomenon, however. It's a pandemic.

 

True enuff but the fact is that its the american corporations that have put the world on a knife edge
Its the USA and Britain that are forging ahead to make the world governed by leeching aristo's that dont give a fuck if your son gets killed - cuz theirs are tucked up nicely in a wonderfull school paid for by your money, and if their sons are old enough to go to war - well daddy will buy them out of the forces with money daddy leeched out of the public purse - dont you worry son ! eh?
FUCKIN WHAT ????????

 

Let's have a history lesson. The aztecs were an imperialist warrior society; they controlled the surrounding tribes and forced them to pay tribute. That's why so many of the surrounding tribes joined forces with Cortez to defeat the Aztecs.

And Montezuma had severe diarrhea and like little boys. Should I also point out the religious sacrifices?

 

why not? give us something to think about tho

 

-a remarkable exchange. An American speaks.
To all nationals on this topic, I say have a peek in your own crapper.
And to anyone taking potshots in this particular direction, what makes you think there aren't millions within these particular national boundaries more critical than any outsider could ever be?

It is a dangerous thing, a foolish and intirely silly thing, to pre-empt the way a citizen understands the topography of their own landscape.

Because it all boils down to that. Any society is made up of individuals, and its ultimate claim to any moral stance lives or dies inside each one.
Is your argument more true or perfect because anyone or everyone agrees?
(or no-one, as the case may be.)

Lennon found that out when he made that unfortunate statement about 4 ex-teddy boys being more popular than a religious icon. A silly thing to say, but he was a silly man at the time.
Even so, Sir Paul had to go and get that title back, eventually. (And who really cares what it means to him? It made sense I suppose, when he finally decided he'd earned the right.)

Now, I don't have a problem with attacking anti-social behavior. You can still love people and really hate what they do.
Unless he's got his finger on a button, any social collective is more powerful than any individual.
Somehow, kicking around the collateral damage resulting from the follies of a small bunch of stupid white men is sort of like a two year-old's tantrum.
It's sorta cute, rolls your eyes, begs for patience, tolerance - plays itself out, or you quarantine it, and wait for any small bit of understanding that these particular battles of will ultimately evolve into some semblance of social adaptability.

As the quote above aptly states, the judgemental rights that came out of your crackerjack box turn out to be rather counterfeit - and what you don't know and can't understand can bite you bad in tender places.


later-

 

Assuming there is such a thing as a "nation" - thats what the whole thread is about!
Why should I feel sorry if some soldier feels pissed off that someone can question the whole idea of what a nation state is?
I dont give a damn !!! The fact is that there is no set of criteria that defines a nation. you can find a load of bullshit written in the language of some half crazed government propogandist whose job is to write a load of BS, and thats it.
Nationhood is a trick to get people separated from each other on ethnic lines. Its a way to make people feel threatened by outsiders. Government appeals for the nation to be united and be prepared for war
all that means is - (in the case of iraq) These corporations we represent are gonna go get the resources of iraq, and we're using US soldiers.
Halliburton steals oil and uses US soldiers to do it ! The appeal for war is done on the basis that the country is threatened
Theres a simple way to check this: Get your president or whoever - to replace all government employees with a direct link or any known association in a professional capacity to halliburton, and then get halliburton out of iraq and use a rival company

So you think that questioning a government is a bourgeois excersise? These people getting killed out there never had the luxury of someone taking a backseat - the civillians are the collateral dammage!!!! the soldiers out there are getting shot at must be wondering whether it was worth it to join an army whose sole purpose seems to be to protect the instatement of a CIA directed government on foreign soil.
People are getting killed on the orders of a corporation. Its alright having a smart sentence or two about collateral damage but its the arseholes that
are in power that call it collateral damage - everyonelse knows its rank murder in pursuit of wealth

 

I'm asking to make sure. Is Halliburton the only foreign oil company in Iraq at the moment?

 

No Qinetiq from Europe is a supporter of Halliburton - seem to have links with them - John Major and a few other shit heads fom Britains past run it apparently - well they are its appologists - theres others but Dick Cheney was senior to halliburtons plans and is in government - the bush family have big links to it. Rhumsfeld is a pharmaceuticals industry guy - dont know what other corporate interests he has but he's no longer up there is he?
Also - I believe (but may be wrong on this) that halliburton gets to say how iraqi oil is dished out and to whom

 

Then this puts more shame on the world as a whole that no other government has even made the mildest criticism. Doesn't this mean that instead of wearing a flag of their country on their sleeve, UN soldiers should be wearing the symbol of the company they're fighting a war for?

 

All the governments are doing it - thats why people who cry "stop it! stop saying these spiteful things" are just thinking that the world is lumbering on much as it did in the past - but the new world order is really about post nationhood states
corporate states - Britain incorporated
The united states inc etc etc. Now exactly what is there to be proud of when social issues take a backseat to the demands and needs of whichever corporation the leader of a country is profiting from?
The new world order is the new bigger improved greed

 

EDIT: Repeated post from being away from town for a few days.

 

Ever wonder why Germany and France were made the brunt of so many things before and at the beginning of the war, because Iraq owed them money through their oil dealings. Germany and France wanted to be paid. The corporate powers of England and the US and the other piddly countries they could include in their coalition, didn't give a shit if they never got paid. Israel of course has other issues they want taken care of, while not being part of the coalition they are a big moving force behind this whole thing. What do they have to offer, that's for you to guess.

What was one of the first things the Coalition lobbied for after the taking of Iraq....that Germany and France would forgive part of those debts.

Nationality, religion...those things are secondary. We are being manipulated by the corporate money bosses. They only use nationality and religion to get the stupid among us riled up and on their sides. We fight their battles, they reap the rewards.