how odd....... the thing you are demanding of those who speak out against america..... is the same the majority of protestors are demanding of americans in their country.....
actualy oz i wasn't demanding anything, thats an old american joke, usualy reserved for tourist in scenic small towns, I.E. "welcome to montana now go home', We say it because so many city people get tired of the restictions and the rat race of there homes so they move to these islands of amerian culture and immedietly procede to try and make it like the place the just esaped. I felt it applied very well If you people wish to protest the american goverment please do, add your voice to ours and just maybe they will hear us. Our system of free press will give you all the ammo you need. But I am an american, and so was my father and his father before him going back to 1664 when they left denmark to escape oppretion. and we are not facist or any of the other labels that seem to be the new politicaly correct. SO many of you ignore so much of america and its history to judge us. you do not take it account that people are people. How do you coralate your judgments with the fact that our constition was written in part by a native chief, and there where no indian battles with out indians on both sides. did you even know that? Or how about the fact that poeple went to jail over the "trail of tears" and a few of them where indians. The arrogence and hipocracy of american haters overwhelms me, you see something greater than yourself and instead of building your self up you try and tear it down to your level. I have news for all of you, the majority of americans just want to live there midleclass lives in peace, they live in small to midsized towns and many seldom even lock there doors. They fear there goverment and feel helpless to promote change. and if there was a simple vote to fire or not to fire members of the goverment, and every american where forced to vote, the white house would be one big empty building. So welcome to america, and while your here feel free to burn an effigy to bush on the steps on the whitehouse, I am sure a passerby will give you light if you dont have one. and be secure in the knowledge that regardless of your race, gender, or sociel position, that if you are injuried in one of the wild lands that make up so very very much of our great land a lifeflight helicopter will be there as quickly as they posibly can. P.S in regards to the freedom to become more than you forfathers, your right to worship what you will, and the freepress you now take for granted, on behalf the american people i would like to say your welcome
The history isnt yours - its your governments - theres a difference The history people are judging is the one written in blood across the entirety of the 20th century by USA. Its all right telling people to go away and stop criticising - so long as we can say "get your head out of the arse of your government and tell them to stop their insip corporate war for greeds sake" I think you are an isolationist still believes in the flag and hasnt realised the rest of the world isnt gonna sit there and be ripped off any more good advice !
Something else i feel the need to impart to all of you who pretend to know how we are taught and raised. As a child i fully beleived that negative crap you spout about america. I was taught it in school and at home from the tv. Then when i was young dum and full of cum I moved to oklahoma, I met this indian girl and we got very close. She lived with her grandfather, he was over 90 and perhaps the wisest man i have ever met. He had a great love of his culture and its poeple, he was very active in his comunity and donated a great deal of his time teaching the local cherokee language on pbs. One day we where talking about america and it origens and in true child like fashion I tried to kiss hiss ass and repeated the things i had heard my entire life. To my surprise he busted out laughing and proceded to tell me about his child hood. He told me how his people did not venerate nature but considered themselves a part of it, he told me about buffalo jumps, something history had chosen to ignore, how they would push hundreds of buffalo off a cliff so the butcher and eat one or two. He told anidotes about growing up how as a teenage boy, how he was given a gun and a horse and he and his freinds where sent out to hunt for the village, teenage boys left to there own devises, and i had to laugh imagining myself at that age if i had been given so much freedom. he then went to a cabinit and pulled out one of those large coffee table books, and in it was a reproduction of a painting of the first congress, he then porceeded to point out those in it who where obviously of native decent. By the time our little talk i had ended i had more respect for his people than i had ever had before, sudenly they where very real to me, I could relate to them, I understood that the trails they endured where the same as the ones all people face, that there goverment was every bit as curropt as any other.I began to consider what it realy ment that they had always had the right to own land, and the right to vote. I saw how they had shaped this nation more than any other poeple from any other culture, and i began to better understand myself and where i had come from, and that we are all citizens of the earth So in response to the many acuasations that have americans have been manipulated to take a side i will agree. the truth is that it is posible that unlike the propaganda we have been brought up to believe maybe there was real concern for human rights that brought us into veitnam. that maybe just maybe, *the fact we had the only and at the time bloodiest war in history to end slavery,* the fact that strip mining was oulawed as early as 1848, and that so much of our land was put aside for nature speaks more about america than the all negative veiws than i was brought up to believe * it is the only time in the history of the world that slaves where freed not by an uprising but by civil war
http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/Big_Brother/echelon_spy_in_the_sky.htm oh - you mean these people? the ones who have you so positively thinking there is anything the government of your country represents than its own bloodletting in the name of the economy? or these people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_ECHELON is it just a rant from an apple pie guy or does he really like the fact that his presidents family got their money by buying gold fron the nazis that they took from jewish people that were gassed and burnt in concentration camps NEVER TRUST A PATRIOT _ THEY'LL GET U KILLED ONE DAY
thank you so very much, i could not have found a better example of what i have been trieing to get you all to understand. you see in america there was talk of impeachment when the news of this came out, the outrage this brought out in the american people shook the pillers of congress, while in merry old london its just standered operateing procedure. you realy need to at least try and stop being so very narrow minded
oh - got your goat did it? YEAH but at least in britain they do tell us that they are spying on us just that here the patriots are as blinkered and naive as in america - it took europeans to inform the american people of the USA govs tactics - you should thank us ! without anarchists your people would still be listening to you Of course your government couldnt be keeping your heads in the clouds by suppressing news like this could it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5005994.stm
^ what gets my goat is when people take things out of context and twist what people are trieing to say to sapport there narrow minded veiws. and thank you again for proving my point, in england, no outrage. in america, a shit storm
I hear ya brother.............hate it when those narrowminded neo-cons do that.............. ..............oh........faux pas
Also good spelling and grammar goes a long way towards having people actually give some thought to your views...........perhaps a remedial English course is in order.........then you might actually be taken a bit seriously.....however i'm not particularly bothered by it, I enjoy the comedy provided by your subpar prose and juvenile rhetoric.
Ah, really? So thats why there's been all those 24/7 broadcasts showing Bush, Cheney and the rest being hauled out in chains for abuse of office and treason against the citizenry and Constitution of the United States? Or perhaps those other reports of the immediate dismantling of the NSA and CIA and their wiretapping infrastructure? Oh yes, a real shit storm. Must be like every other shitstorm that I've witnessed as a US citizen over the past several decades, which blow in and blow back out again leaving the beltway insiders essentially unscathed to continue business as usual whilst the broader public falls back into its complacent grazing mode as expected by those at the helm. Time to take a deeper look at the undisturbed institutionalised criminal continuity behind the sensationalistic corporate media diversions, steffan.
i wiish these responses where unbeilievable, but there far from it, if people didnt take attitudes like so many of these posters religon would never have gotten as far as it did. Makes me sad, that because i am not spouting the retoric see the responses i get? Its like poeple realy hate an open mind, expeciely when it goes against there dogmas. You think you know my veiwpoints? well in a perfect world you should, perfect hell, in a just world you would, but its fairly obvious that that would meen removing a large chunk of the population. It just seems so obvious what it is im protesting, it takes real effort and fanatical behaivor to miss the point. thats exactly what goverments like, it may work against them at times, but overall its that narrow mindedness that keeps them in power. a shitstorm, I exagreated to make a point. I guess i could have realy thought about it spent three pages spelling everything out, nnnaw. I shoudnt have responded to the post huh , its not like i dont know about the vocal minority there are alot of down to earth folks on here and I'm sure a few of them read what i had to say, and if any of them got a chuckle from my arguing with walls i deserved it . i am glad for the opertunity to hop up on a soap box from time to time. ^ dude, i actualy live here. Goverments allow free press, because they control the flow of information at its source, when combined with capitelism..... i should make a thread about that, the practice and implications of a free press
Oh and your rhetoric isnt dogmatic ?? All that apple pie america stuff - I notice you never said anything about where your Fhurers money came from - back in the days when grandpa Bush and Adolph were hammering out a deal over all that nazi gold from the teeth of jews that were gassed! And how about the fact that daddy bush had ex nazi advisors in his government? I'd say the dogma of apple pie america is pretty much the dogma to get rich with - wouldnt you? I mean fancy ! How open minded of you to close everyonelses eyes to these facts while you glibly reminisc about how it was when you were a boy! How about being so open minded you help get rid of a few world class criminals and let some kids enjoy the USA again instead of leaving them with the prospect that those people in the whitehouse might be getting the kids generation killed to stuff cheneys pockets The same free press that can be told not to print the facts about environmental disaster? or the free press that has to print what its told to print about iraq? or is that free press that knew about Echelon but didnt tell the American people till Europeans blew it for the US politicians?
Also, good spelling and grammar go a long ways towards having people actually give some thought to your views... and shit, what the hell is with all those periods? this is a form of punctuation. so is this... ........................................................................ this isn't.
Your snide and all too typical comment about "I live here" only suggests you as the very sort of closed minded tv-fed drone I have long seen the nation devolve into, steffan. For your information, as a US citizen who has had the privilege to live abroad and travel throughout much of the world in which our leaders dump our calling card of exploitation and destruction (with the silent complicity of a wholly corporate-owned collusionistic press which you naively purport to be "free"), I can safely say that I have a much more informed view of both the domestic situation and that transpiring behind the sanitised headlines. The fact is the bulk of the nation has long dismissed its Constitutionally-mandated civic duties to hold the government accountable and thus has complacently allowed big money corporate interests and its grasping powerhungry minions to fill out all the branches of government and its enforcement institutions. The agenda of steady and incremental disnefranchisement and economic dispossession is now underway and neither you nor the bulk of the sheeple have any intention of doing anything other than tuning in the latest nightly tv series whilst it all slips into full tyranny. Don't be surprised if you wake up one day in your twilight years to find your children and grandchildren living in the very same society our grandfathers fought a World War to try to prevent. Tell me all about your "free press" then.
We're already living in that kind of society, as far as I'm concerned. People don't need to wake up one day and realize it-they need to wake up and realize it NOW. People here have had so many of their freedoms and rights to due process taken away that most people don't even notice or care anymore. The only reason that the government allows us to discuss these issues openly is to alllow us to blow off steam-it knows that we can't effect any change at all by discussing issues like this, anyway. If we really could, the government would be kicking our doors down to prevent us from saying these things. Allowing us to talk openly like this just gives the facade of free speech and democracy. I know a lot of people that have spent plenty of time in jail for simply exercising their right to freedom of speech and expression. Foreigners that come here can't believe how the government in this country limits its citizens in the areas of expression and association. I could go on about it for hours, but I don't really think that hardly anybody gives a rat's ass anyway.
I think you would be very suprised at how much your government does take notice of what people say and who is saying it!
^lick makes ALOT of assumtions, and dismisses alot of things. The overwhelming arrogence, dosnt it just remind you of the system, and the roadblocks that prevent change? I wonder if I subcontiosly started this thread just so i could run a point into the ground its like there stereo typing americans and carrieing it to some twisted extreme. Dont we we all feel helpless in removeing the corruption from our goverment? and that level of coruption is directly tied to the amount of power they control. Our forfathers worked hard to limit that power, and the proceding generation have continued that work across the globe. there is still much to do. even if its dangerously extreme to carry it out, such an invation of privacy as wiretapping should be an impeachable offence in every nation, instead of buisness as usual. I'm sure to some extent it is here , but it must be kept limited or you see what happens, and they need a warrent from a federal judge to use it as evidence and that warrent will be a mater of public record. perhaps when the other nations of the world catch up we will reach a balance and grow together, i can only hope so
Oh you can be damn sure the world is gonna grow with corruption - the funeral parlours will have a bumper decade soon How about having the sense to throw out the old rule book and write a new one? your old one allows crims and fascists into the whitehouse BTW ytou still dont say if you knowingly support your Fuhrers family having a nazi past - dont you think they should pay for all that gold?
Hate to ruffle your continued insinuated assumption that "other nations" are somehow inferior to the US in social liberties, but the converse is actually the case. Under the neocons, the nation i was raised to believe in as the bastion of freedom has become a mockery of every rhetorical reference to "liberty, the rule of law, and equal opportunity". Youll find countries in Europe, for starters, where those things remain far more viable a reality than back home, I'm afraid. Perhaps if my fellow citizens back home would turn off the televised drivel and take their civic obligations seriously (i.e. learning what is actually written in the Constitution and Bill of Rights for starters) perhaps WE could catch up and once again assume our intended place as a beacon of democracy and transparent governance.
