The bible makes so many proposterous claims, it's common sense its all myth, I mean adam and eve, if they were brought together and knew god, then how come there are so many other nations, so many other religions?, I mean if the bible was true it has to have been passed down through countless generations! And noah's flood!!!!!! come on BULLSHIT, do you know how many species of animals there are just on land to fit in that goddamn boat, plus the fish, i mean they would have to have gone on it too, a salt war fish cannot function in freshwater and vica versa, they would have died, And if you say the grandcanyon, come one there would be a shitload of grandcanyons all over the place if the flood did it!!! Admit it its all myths, and the only reason you believe is because of if you don't you thinlk you'll go to hell or some shit!!!
I'm a Christian because of the deeper message. While I am a Bible believing question I think the most important thing of course is the message of Christ. Hence the term "Christian". Some people are Christians and don't believe those things or thing they're symbolic for something else. My belief has little to do with being afraid of going to Hell. While I do believe in such a place it has more to do with moral structure and my God being there and me being there for my God. I worship a forgiving God. I don't think I'll have to worry about Hell. So, that pretty much doesn't even factor in. If you don't want to believe in this religion why would you worry about Hell? In your mind it wouldn't exist.
Please enlightlen me about this grand-canyon idea. I've NEVER heard about it from any Christian, or even anyone else until now. Why do you seem so hell-bent on converting people? I am sure if a Christian evangalist came to your door you'd start ranting about how they are jerks for not respecting the right to believe what you want. And yes, my belief as Portalguy's has little to do with believing every word as literal history or truth, but more with worshiping a God that is forgiving, loving, etc. One could even argue that the Pharrasees (I suck at spelling) rejected Christ because of their rigidness and strict literal adherance to the old prophecies. This is getting off topic, but it is like expectancy and expectation. The expectation the scribes had was that Jesus would come to redeem Isreal and defeat their opressors. In contrast, Jesus came with a more powerful and widespread change, the message of redemption for mankind. Expectancy that God will do something wonderful.
Ive read some fundamentalist literature on the great flood/creation and how science proves it happened it, i found it, well, amusing. Though I dont see why its much of an issue whether its metaphorical or not, if the bible had gone into quantum field theory and the big bang then ancient civilisation would probably have looked on it much how we look at Revelations. Besides as I wrote about in a previos thread its looking increasinly likely that Genesis wasnt written by moses anyway.
It's really not as simple as that. Pretty much everyone in western society has been brainwashed to some extent by some version (usually a distorted one) of christianity from early childhood. Even if someone gets to a point in their life where they decide what they've been taught just doesn't add up they'll still have the messages they were inundated with durring their formative years floating around in the back of their mind somewhere. If someone has "do this or you'll burn in hell forever" pounded into their head as a child they're not likely to be able to just shrug it off just because they've realised, as an adult, that it doesn't make sense. It takes a bit (quite a bit) of de-programming. The best way I've found to do this (as with any other fear) is to face it; read the bible for yourself and see what it says. Come to your own conclusions about what it's saying. Ask yourself questions along the way--is the message throughout the all the books of the bible consistent? Or did the theolgy start with one message and somehow morph into something else? Is the message consistent with the one I've been exposed to from the media, family, church? Was it mean't to be taken literally? (note Portalguy, when I say "you" I'm not trying to advise you personally. I mean "you" in the general sense)
Yeah dude, I was being an asshole, I've been doing some research the last few days, and came to find that not all christians are so hell-bent on being right, its just what sounds right for them. I apologize for all this stuff. But still I'm not a christian lol. The reason I get so pssed at this stuff, is becuase my parents and shit, they keep telling me if idon't believe in christ as the only way and shit like that, and that if i don't believe the bible i'll go to hell. It's more personal problems and i apologize. But anyway, some christians think that the grand canyon is proof of noah's flood, they say that there is no way, erosion and stuff could have made it. I found that stupid. But anyway i apologize, I'm being as bad as a fundamentalist christina, or muslim extremist. I sincerly apologize though for real, I was making a dick out of myself.
I'm Christian, and I find such a need for proof pretty stupid too. I used to be very intellectual, very much into analysis, proof, and understanding - when you have invited Jesus into your heart and can accept life's answers on a 'need to know' basis everything becomes so much easier. Letting go is one of the greatest challenges in being saved though.
So in your opinion we shouldn't quest for knowledge of this world, we should just wait till we die and hope there is some afterlife where everything would be answered for us? Our society's quest for knowledge of the world around us has led to some pretty amazing accomplishments. Not all people are content not questioning the things they don't understand, thank god, or we wouldn't have things like the life-saving technology and medicine that is responsible for why many of us are here and healthy today. It isn't about proof as much as it is about discovery and understanding of the world we live in.
I used to think exactly as you do - in fact I probably debated with Christians in exactly the same way. It must be hard to take my word for it, not having known me before and after the spiritual experience that changed my life, but things really are better when you stop looking for the answers and let them find you.
Your claims about Adam and Eve and the Nations/ Religions that came up and about the Bible being "passed down" show that you didn't spend much time thinking about it. :/ Or that you have no clue about Christian theology ( sorry! XD ). OK, let's break down some Bible BASICS, shall we? ^^ First of all: the creation. Man was created to have fellowship with God. the Fall. Adam and Eve sinned thus seperating them from God. And then sin was passed down through the generations. The flood. God couldn't bear with the sin and the seperation from His creation, so He took the step and destroyed the world with a flood, except the only righteous people left, -Noah and his family. Enabling a new beginning in Human kind. ---JUDAISM---- The Law. There was still alot of sin in the world. So God decided that a Law may help them, to help them seperate the good from the evil. This law is called the " Torah ", and includes the 5 books of Moses. ( including Genesis, which tells of the Creation story and the Flood ) The Prophecies. God raised Jewish prophets and judges to show people His power and warn them. Many of these prophecies include the coming of the Messiah and how it will be in the 'last days' ( the end of the World ). This, plus the 5 Books of Moses make up the "Tanakh". the Jewish Holy Scriptures, A.k.a. the so-called "Old Testament." The Prophecies date back to 300-500 BC ----THE MESSIAH---- The Law can only do so much. The Law by no means removed sin. People sacrificed lambs to cover for it ( innocent blood for sinful blood ). But the people were not free of sin and therefore could not return in fellowship with God and they couldn't return to God either. Because sin made that berrier between man and God. The Messiah. The Messiah finally came, and He, being part of God who,and therefore was able to never sin, could become a sacrifice for us, so that if we accept Him, we can be free of sin and return to fellowship and return to the presence of God. 33 years He lived, and then died without sin. His blood was innocent HUMAN BLOOD. -----NOW ( Christianity )---- We can have fellowship with God, yay! -those who accept God's gift, that is. About Adam and Eve and the many religions/races, don't zou think they had children? And don't you think their children had children? Then some inherited certain Genes, others inherited other Genes, they interbred, got lots of kids, and so on....then in certain places there was a natural selection because the people moved up north or something- that explains races. Religions, some people are skeptical and don't believe their parents or others and make up their own beliefs, and they again are passed on. -There's religions, simple eh? Now about the Bible being passed down through generations: The Bible was not written all at once, as above, it was written over generations to Generations, spreading from Moses to Judges to Prophets to the Messiah to the Disciples of the Messiah and so on. It's From the beginning of Judaism to Christianity, - a span of several hundred years. And besides, the Bible is not only one book, it is a book compiled of 64 books and letters written over the long periods of time.A mini library. Now, are all your questions covered pal?
Should have said before, don't take my word for it: Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. I would never have agreed to this a few weeks ago, but when you've been shown it's undeniable.
Hmmm, If I have a headache and I take some painkillers it goes away, if I don't take the painkillers I still have the headache. It isn't through through the grace of god that my headache was relieved, it's down to the scientific research that normal people undertook and my act of consuming the medication. It has nothing to do with any gods. People make this world society go round, people cause the problems and only people can solve them, whether it's medically or socially. Gods and religions are just distractions from what is real, a convenient way to attempt to make sense of the world when we otherwise cannot. Can we not simply accept that the world is the way it is because it is? Why do we have to attribute this marlvel of life to a single being, what sense does it make? If we seek understanding we will eventually find it, scientifically, but to simply accept the hear-say of what someone said thousands of years ago without any real way of knowing whether it is myth or not is simply incredulous. Where is the logic in that?
Would anyone like to purchase the Brooklyn Bridge? I will give ya a good price! If you know what life is worth...you would look for yours on earth.
The races were ALL created on the 6th day. He says " man and woman, created He them ". It doesn't say how many. As for the proposterous claims, have you ever studied archeology ? Even most scientist don't believe in the Darwin theory anymore. And, Portalguy is right. if the only reason to believe in Christ is your fear of going to hell, you're better off sticking to the way you think right now. Threatening your children with the idea of a burning hell is pretty similar to Molechism. God doesn't like it. He doesn't want your BURNT OFFERINGS. he wants your love. There ARE some typos in our translations. We are human and humans do err. The original Hebrew text may or may not specify that the flood covered the entire earth. And even if it did...God created this world. Don't you think that a being that powerful could find a way to protect it from a massive flood?
