A difficult concept for me to grasp

I realise it's not good karma to take the life of other beings. Regardless of how insignificant their life my seem while they crawl, alone, across my wall. I do not wish to take the lives of any of these creatures, but at times I find myself unable to prevent myself from these deeds.

For instance in my area the brown recluse spider is fairly prominant. Now, I have a slight, and by slight I mean fairly bad, fear of spiders to begin with. I have, however been much better about scooping them up and putting them outside etc. However when I see a spider that resembles the brown recluse, I am compelled to squash it out of fear that it will bite me.

For those who do not know the brown recluse is a very poisonous spider that bites repeatedly when it attacks. I know that regardless of my reasoning for killing the critter, it is due to a selfishness of desiring to live on. How does one look at that spider knowing it could end ones existance, and allow it to continue crawling around endangering the lives of those around?

 

It's a learning to let go...

 

It sounds so simple, yet in reality it's probably the most difficult thing I could ever do.

 

For me killing a dangerous spider is a no brainer. I squash it and I don't think twice. The amount of suffering I may create in letting it live is orders of magnitude more than me killing it. Shouldn't have incarnated as such a horrible form (to myself) that is so easily destroyed by me.

 

This isn't Buddhism, this is ultilitarianism.

Just kill the damn thing; any common insect will have to worry about dying some way or anyother, if you don't kill it something else will.

In Buddhism the don't-take-life precept is more in regards to, for example, issues such as vegetarianism, or at least, that's what it's commonly taken as.

Remember that Buddhism has a strong emphasis on the middle way, and letting poisonous spiders freely roam your home is a bit extreme on the don't-kill front (i.e. not middle way).

 

My understanding is that Buddhism teaches compassion for all living things, human and insect alike.

Accidents happen but unnecessary fatalities should be avoided.

 

Mind if I come and kill you? I mean, any common human will have to worry about dying some way or another, if I don't kill you someone else will.

Why do you feel insects are less deserving of our compassion than humans?

Just because they irritate you or you find their form unpleasant doesn't mean you should intentionally kill them (unless in extreme circumstances your life is threatened or something...But you come from London Sebbi so it's unlikely that you'll come across many bird-eating spiders or cobras). Intentionally killing anything will cause different levels of negative karma. More if you take enjoyment out of killing and feel no remorse afterwards, probably less if you kill out of necessity (self-defence against deadly living beings).

Buddha taught compassion for ALL living beings, not compassion for all the humans and fuck everything else.

*Some advice to you Sebbi, probably best you dont go around preaching to people what buddhism is and isnt. Definitely wont win any friends that way.

*Here's a decent discussion on the same topic at e-sangha;
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=32738

 

This is a no-brainer for me. I used to swat mosquitos all the time, but then someone pointed out that no matter how many of them I killed, it did not solve the problem, more mosquitos just took the place of the dead ones. Instead I use mosquito repellants that make them stay away from me.

Some things you can do for spider control:

CONTROL. Spider control is a multi-step process.
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• Inspection. A thorough inspection of the building is essential and many have to be made at night because most spiders are nocturnal.
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• Identification. Accurate identification is important for both pest management and medical reasons.
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• Prevention. This consists of making sure that the building is in good physical condition, and properly screened and sealed to reduce entry. Also, changing the lighting to off-building locations, from mercury vapor to sodium vapor lamps, or in the case of homes, changing the bulbs near the entrances to yellow bulbs, may be of help in reducing attractiveness to insects and hence spiders.
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• Routine, thorough house cleaning with a vacuum will help eliminate spider egg sacs, spiders and webs. Dispose of the bag outside.
• Caulk or seal any cracks and crevices in the structure where the spiders exist. Chimneys, window sills, pipes, utility access holes and door thresholds are potential openings. Sealing off these areas will not only help keep insects (food for Brown Recluse's) from entering, but also keep outside populations of Brown Recluse spiders from entering your home after your attempts to eliminate their indoor population.
  
• Install screens or replace damaged screens on doors and windows.
  
• Remove potential breeding places like woodpiles, leaf litter, debris and rocks around your home.
  
• Seal boxes and storage bags. Keep them away from a wall where possible.
  
• Inspect clothing that is infrequently worn. Store them in sealed plastic bags or boxes when not in use.
  
• Reducing clutter in your home will reduce the number of places they can hide. Undisturbed clutter in basements, attics, and closets are favorite Brown Recluse hiding spots.
  
• Because Brown Recluse spiders usually start to come out of their hiding places after dark, that is one of the best times to do a search for them. They will usually not be too far from where they chose to hide during the day. Use a flashlight to hunt for them in poorly lit areas.

 

Tackling the philosophy of it: what makes you say that the spider can end your existence? It can only destroy your body. So long as you identify yourself with that lump of flesh, you are subject to being killed. But it is abundantly clear that you are not the body, this has been proven in a hundred ways in all religion.

Humans crawl around the earth, regularly massacring millions of innocent animals (directly or indirectly, we all contribute to this). Would you kill a human in order to save the chicken he is going to eat for dinner?

 

If you have not taken Buddhist refuge then don't worry about it. If you have then there are the five common precepts such as 'refraining' from killing, lying, stealing, sexual misconduct and getting intoxicated. However, even after taking refuge these vows of abstinence are not demanded but some choose to take one or more or all of them. They are recommended but not obligatory.

That said, in considering compassion for all beings one must consider those which will suffer the most, as humans surely will when bitten by a Brown Recluse.

Finally the common layperson's vows above say that one will 'refrain from' these acts. It does not say that one will never do them.

 

What if you stepped on a brown recluse intentionally then left it for dead with it's limbs broken and mangled?

A LOT of suffering.

not to mention fuckingbadkarma.com

 

Not to mention all the plants and animals that suffer as a result of humans abusing them - would you kill the factory farmers?

 

What about the bad karma of throwing recluse spiders out in the cold? Why not just let them nest in your nice warm house to multiply? Better yet, go get some plague-infected rats from the sewer and bring them into your happy home, too. And those mosquitoes with yellow fever need something to eat. Why not let them suck your blood? You have plenty of it to spare. Same goes for the bed-bugs, and tsetse flies, and bengal tigers....

Buddhism is not Jainism.

 

It's true. We are not Jains. Buddhists follow the Middle Way. It is a wide path of respect for all living things, but not a superstitious path of inaction based on fear of doing wrong. The Middle Path is a nondual path which means that right and wrong arrive concurrently, only to subside concurrently as well. The situation prescribes the means for dealing with it almost as if a topos of a set, complete in itself, works with its own rules which then are relinquished, for the next topos, due to lack of primary topological foundation. Sorry if that's complex. See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topos_theory
In being dangerous a Brown Recluse has already made its choice about its future in relation to humans. Moreover, there is a limited set of responses available for dealing with the Brown recluse as a human. Of course one can devote themself to providing a Brown Recluse haven if they are of the mind, and if they feel the need to be that strong for Brown Recluse and human equality.

Personally I like spiders alot. They do not freak me out. But poisonous spiders are horrendously dangerous, and I treat them as such. To do otherwise is to ignore conventional reality, in which case one then must face the unconventional resulting karma.

Sometimes the unconventional is good for breaking into new ground. Sometimes it is the move to a very imbalanced and harmful state and should be supressed.

Moreover, the killing of one culprit at an early state can prevent a larger system of adveristy from developing later. For instance, I let a mouse live on my balcony and make a cute little home in my planters, one year. Soon though I had eleven mice. If I hadn't been kind to one species of adverse conventional interests from mankind, I would not have had to kill eleven mice later. But respect for life, in toto, demanded that I prevent further mouse spreading.

 

I'm sick to death of people in this forum trying to dictate and preach to everyone else what 'buddhism' is and isnt.

 

Thank you Bhaskar. I think this more than anything put the answer in perspective. The question seemed absurd, but my first thought for a reply made me realize the purpose of the question. For the first thought in my mind when reading that question was, "Of course not; I'm not attached to the chicken"

 

[font=Times_CSX+]Kamma is a very deep subject. Even monks during. the Buddha's time found it very difficult to understand this doctrine of Kamma. For instance everybody knows the story of Cakkhupàla Thera who led a contemplative life. As a result of his contemplation on the subject of pacing up and down in the ambulatory, he, attained Arahatship. (the, final stage of Sainthood). Yet, his attainment and blindness occurred simultaneously. [/font] [font=Times_CSX+]On the following day, early in the morning when he was pacing up and down in the ambulatory, he killed many insects unintentionally. Visiting monks seeing the blood-stained ambulatory complained to the Buddha that he had committed the offence of killing. The Buddha explained to them that he was not guilty as he was an Arahant. He had no intention to kill insects. His idea in walking up and down the ambulatory was not to kill insects. The Buddha asked them "Do you know what 1 mean by Kamma? It means intentional activity or doing. It may be physical verbal or mental volitional action, otherwise called moral and immoral action."[/font]

[font=Times_CSX+]When a farmer is ploughing his field he destroys many insects unintentionally. Is it a sinful action ? It is not a sinful action, because he has no intention of killing insects. His idea is to cultivate his field. When you are walking to the office from home you trample so many insects unintentionally. Is it a sinful or an immoral action? It is not, because his intention in walking to office was not to kill insects.
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Bottom line is this;
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[font=Times_CSX+]There is no definite answer because as with all the precepts it depends on the circumstances and more to the point the intention. There are circumstances where you are lead to intentionally kill as this thread makes clear.
But as I understand it there are a few stages of karma; The arising of the thought, the planning of the action, the actual 'doing' of the action and the after-effects of the action.

So if you the thought arises when you see a deadly insect and you plan and think about killing it these are unskillful intentions (though possibly neutral when you really think about it). Then you actually physically squash/kill the insect (unskillful). But then you have an immedient deep sense of regret for what you did because you never really wanted to kill another living being (and you feel compassion for it) then this part of the karmic action is most probably skillful.
So quite possibly the whole action could be a mix (indeed most actions are if you really analyse them) and end up as neutral karma. Karma is extremely complex.

Though if you are going around intentionally killing insects and diriving satisfaction from the act I can't really see how this is nothing less than unskillful karma.


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Thank you for that Peterness. Thank you for the link as well. I haven't been able to spend a whole lot of time there but I've nosed around a bit and quite like the site.

 

Most people in this world worry about more important things than whether or not they're killing insects.

 

Oh wise one, since you know what is important in this world will you please enlighten us?