Anybody can write a book....

Well, I here you on the dead see scrolls, I mean shit I guess if a few scientists determine it has to be.... But come one the bible is such crap, along with mythology, folklore,santa claus, and fairy tales.

I believe in god, but not a deity, or many deities, I believe god is all of us as one consciousness, there is no true way, no savior, no enlightened one no prophets nothing.

In my humble opinion, religion gives hope to people, that's a great thing, although false hope, it's hope.

But lets look logically at the "literal" meaning of the bible.

1.Adam and Eve- They were supposedly the first two people on earth, then where did all the different races and religions come from?, I mean they would have passed their genes and beliefs down through all the generations, right? But, there are alot of different races around the world, differents religions and beliefs exc. Now lets look at how much shit it is. Ok one day, an all perfect god, decided well fuck i guess i need people to worship me, wait, what!?, If he was there forever always perfect, god would not need anything to complete him or asure him he is great, 2. We were made "imperfect", If that god was so perfect, how could he think imperfect thoughts?, how could he make imperfect creatures, unless 1. it is myth 2. he is imperfect just as man.

Another one, god supposedly knows, everything past, present, future, he would never be suprised, right? Well why would he be asking adam where he was hiding, i mean he is omnipresent right? He should know. Yet again another flaw in the perfectness of yahweh.

2. Noahs ark, Well one day god decided to flood the earth cause nobody was following his way, ok he picks this holy dude named noah, he gathers all the animals from the earth, and brings them on a boat, Wow, thats stupid, what about fish he would have to get them too, saltwater fish and freshwaer fish cannot live in eachothers enviornment, they would die, therefore making them extinct. How big was this boat excactly, to fit two of every living creature on it? People say, well look at the grand canyon, ok i went in seventh grade, big deal, a flood dosen't explain that!!! There would be a shitload of grandcanyons everywhere.

Its a myth, just like Zeus, just like fucking santa claus. I mean you believe what you want but i think its bullshit, and if your god wants to send me to hell for using logic, and common sense, and choosing my own beliefts over his, well fuck that, ill burn.

 

Like I said, scholars believe the prophetic portions of Daniel were written sometime during the second cent. BC, by that time all the prophicies we were talking about had already been fullfilled (ie, all the events had already taken place by the time it was written).

So the fact that we have a 2000 year old copy doesn't mean anything (for the purposes of this discussion).

Using the scrolls as proof is like taking a history book that was written last year that talks about Columbus discoverring america 514 yrs ago and calling it "prophetic".

 

So you believe that you and I and the rest of the people on this site are God?

Hasn't science shown that men can be traced back to common ancestors, even men of different "races". And surely, just because you parents have a certain belief or religion doesn't mean you will adopt that as well. I'm sure a good number of non-christians on this site have christian parents and likewise a good number of christians on this site have parents who are non-christians. The bible even shows that the Jews who were being led by God out of Egypt still rebelled and built a golden idol to worship.

Who says that God created men to complete himself? The bible certainly never communicates this idea. And yes we are imperfect creatures but we have to take into account that we have been given freewill since the beginning. With this freedom of choice comes the potential for evil and from man's fall until now we have been living in a cursed creation. God could have created us as robots that would do whatever he wanted but in this scenario love would be meaningless. having a relationship with God would not be the same.

And I don't think God asking Adam "Where are you?" in Gen 3:9 should call into question God's omnipresence. It's similar to God asking Satan where he had come from in the book of Job or God going down to Sodom and Gommorah to find out how bad their sin actually was. He's calling them to account. We use this kind of language as well. Parents do it with their kids, asking them what they have done or where they are even if they know already beacuse they want them to face up to what they did. God will be justified before Adam when he speaks.

 

1. On the dead sea scrolls more than a few scientist believe they are 2,000 years old. I would say the vast majority of people in the field have no problem with that age.

2. The different races came about because of many reasons. Some because of diet, some local exposure to degrees of sun light, some because of different human traits that were expanded on over time, ect.

Well don't rule out the flood because you think such a thing would be impossible. Pillar lava is formed only when lava is coming out of the earth and is underwater. On Mount Arrat at the 14,000 foot level they have discovered pillar lava. Since the mountain is volcanic, do you have any idea how pillar lava got there? The Bible use to speak of a city which many non believers use to say did not exist. Yet after thousands of years, a farmer plowing his field hit a stone. He quickly tried to move it but found the stone would not be moved. Soon he dug deeper and to his surprise he found the city the Bible spoke of. Sometimes things talked about in the Bible does not seem possible, yet when you do the research you often discover they in fact are possible and do exist.

I believe what I believe not only because of the Bible, but because I have heard the voice of God. He is no myth. He is a real person who died on the cross for all the sins of the world. It has been my experience, that the more you give your life to Him, the more He reveals to you who He is.

The prophecies of the Bible are true, and all will come to pass as the Bible declared they would. The Jews returning to Israel is just a small part of those prophecies. There is much in the Bible which speaks of the United States, and what is going to happen to our nation.

 

(sigh, guess I'm talking to myself here) Yes, the scrolls are over 2000 yrs old. What do you think this proves exactly?

JLPMGHRS was saying the book of Daniel was written around 530 BC (that's 2536 yrs ago). If the prophecies it spoke of were already fullfilled before the the first century (slightly over 2000 yrs ago), then what exactly does a copy from the first century prove (except that you're really lousy at math)?

It's really a rhetorical question anyway. I know all you we're really doing by bringing up the scrolls is what you always do when you don't have a viable answer; subtlely change the subject and hope nobody notices.

Freedom Man, please don't fall for this shit.

 

The dead sea scrolls are post christ but not by much. That said I dont know if thats the oldest known copies of some of the prophecies.

 

Some of the manuscripts/fragments are dated much earlier (I think 3rd cent BCE, but don't quote me). Some are dated as late as just before the destruction of the temple in 69AD.

I'm fairly certain these are the oldest known copies of any of the books of the Old Testement/Tanakh.

 

Well if you read the post by Freedom Man you would of understood he did not believe the scrolls were even 2,000 years old. What it proves is that the Prophecies that speak of the Jews returning to Israel in the latter days were written long before Israel was reborn as a nation today. My viable answer is simply the Bible states history before it happens. And I may add, it does this in detail. And Israel today is fulfilling those ancient prophecies in detail. And those are details you ignore. And you must ignore them, for to accept them, you would have to agree that the Bible was authored by someone who has advanced knowledge. And that kind of Knowledge could only come from God. Because only God knows the future. You make your smart comments about me being lousy at math, while ignoring the major point I was trying to make.

 

Campbell, either you're an idiot or you think everyone else in here is. Keep playing games. the people in here see you for what you are

 

The prophecies were not fulfilled in the second century not even close. Israel did not return as a nation in the second century, they were not led by one leader. They were not returning from all the nations of the world. In fact just the oppsite was happening. Israel in the second century was not a cup of trembling to the nations of the world. What scholars are you talking about? And what prophecies are you talking about?

 

Talk about playing games, the prophecies are there and only an idiot would ignore them. My answers are based on sound information. Your shoot from the hip answeres lack research, and thought. Consider Ezekiel chapters 36, 37, 38, and 39, and tell me when these were fulfilled in the past.

 

You're confused;the book of Daniel is set during the babylonian captivity which ended in 535 bc, at which time the israelites were allowed to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple--well before the second cent BC. (all of which is a moot point since these specific prophecies aren't even in Daniel).

Another prophecy which isn't in Daniel.

Again, this specific prophecy isn't in Daniel. I believe it's in Ezekiel.

As far as the scholars go, the list would be too long. The belief that the prophetical portions of Daniel were written in the second cent. BC is generally accepted even among christian scholars.
It would take up much less space to show of list of scholars who believe Daniel was written before that date (in that I'd be willing to guess that you can't come up with more than two).

The specific prophecies we're talking about are the ones dealing with "the beast that rose out of the sea"--refferring to the 4 kingdoms ending with the Soulicid empire--and "the abomination of desolation" in reference to the empirial emblem erected at the entrance to the temple, which happened in about 165 BC.

 

My church believes the bible was a misprint and dogs created heaven and earth.

 

"There" is a little vague. And now which prophecies are you talking about?

Yes, in that it "sound"s good to you (not much of a criteria).

They would seem that way to someone who hasn't done any research themselves, and who considers "thought" the act of editing reality to conform to his predrawn conclusions.

When did I say they were? I don't know if you're aware of this but Daniel and Ezekiel are two different books.

 

That would make sense in that my dog seems to know more about what's in the bible than some of the christians in here.

 

If I was a christian, I would focus on the overall theme of the bible rather then trying to infer the meaning of every passage anyway.

The devils in the details.

 

You don't have to be a christian to do this.

But you may have to do this ^ to be a christian.


There's no one cohesive theme throughout the books of the bible.

In order to make it seem like there is someone would have to rely on inference.

 

He's proven true.

Why do you think He answers all my prayers? And why do you think that the things described in Mark 16 still happen today?
I know you may be a little skeptic, but...I believe, because He has proven Himself in my life, He has proven Himself by changing the sinner that I was ( I can tell You, it was only in His ability and His love that I could change...thank you LORD! ), He proves Himself with the personal relationship I, as a believer in Jesus Christ, have.

Let me tell you...someone I know was once crippled, her husband bashed her head into the floor and abused her so bad that her spine was actually shaped like an 's' ( not like the 's' by a normal person, I'm talking about a REAL-DEAL BADBUTT 'S'. O_O ) and I believe her neck was broken too...( not sure about that one, need to double-check. but anyways, She was crippled )
the Doctors were troubled in helping her, but one night she cried out to the LORD, after all the hurt she went through, " GOD if You're real, either Heal me or kill me! ". Guess what, Jesus actually ( here come the skeptics... ) came down with 2 angels and HEALED her. I mean HEALED HER, completely. The next day the Doctors came, and to their surprise she was completely, completely. No explanation possible. This is her testimony, and God got her husband too, they are now happily living together, und have an awesome relationship with each other. The end.

Annie ( her name ) has documental proof from the doctors on this occasion.
true story.


So we see alone by that testimony ( and hundreds to thousands more )
that God does answer prayers, how impossible the pleads may be.

And He does this CONSTANTLY, not only once, all the time! ( He's a very busy God...)

How many times has he answered my prayers? Always, same with the many other Christians who have a close walk with the Creator of the Universe. We were created to have a relationship with Him you know...the good news is that everyone can! If they repent of their sin and believe that Jesus is LORD, is the sacrificial lamb, and died for the sins of many, believe in the True word of God, they can have it.

" If you believe in your heart that Jesus is LORD, and believe that God raised Him from the dead, you WILL be saved. "

Besides the fulfilled prayer thing, as a Christian you don't just have the ability to talk to God, and have your prayers answered,- but God also talks to you.
You can listen to Him, and He WILL talk to you. And the things HE tells ME also have proven true.

So yeah, that's my answer. -Hope you enjoyed my ( long ) answer! XD

 

No offense ryu (and welcome back btw) but the original question was "why do you believe the bible is the word of God"? not "Why do you believe God exists".

Alot of people believe in God, ie, they believe the creative force/persona of the universe has it's own distinct personality and concerns itself with humanity, but they don't identify themselves with the bible or christianity.

Question; Mark16:16 says "He who believes and is baptised shall be saved, and he who does not believe shall be condemned".

Now, the woman in your story prayed to God directly. Obviously (?) given the nature of her prayer she wasn't a christian (didn't believe) and yet she was saved. doesn't this contridict Mark 16?

Also, how did she know it was Jesus who "came down with two angels"?
Does she know what he looks like? did the entity identify himself as Jesus?

Ok here's the thing; I fully understand why someone would believe in God. I believe in God myself. I've seen miracles and had prayers answered and I'm not a christian (unless I missed something).

What doesn't make sense to me is why would anyone feel like they needed a third person (Jesus) to intercede between them and God?

Also why would a belief in God necassarily lead one to believe that the bible is his word (this is after all the question posed by the OP)?

I've asked this question before;
"OK, I understand why you believe in God, I believe in Him myself. What I'm asking is; how did you go from 'there is a God' to '...and his name must be Jesus'?

I've never gotten a straight answer to this.

My own theory is; when someone who's been raised in christian culture experiences the presence of God, they automatically assume that everything in the bible must be true, for no other reason than that that's the only version of God that they've ever heard.

I think this is a bit narrow of a perspective to have towards something that's omnificant.

 

-With " she was saved that day " I meant that, after Jesus proved Himself to her, she put her faith into His hands and became Christian.

-Jesus identified Himself, yes.

-She was raised Catholic, but she was not saved ( she didn't follow Him ) she knew that if there was a God, it was the god of Abraham, because that's the one she prayed to.

You'll have to look at the other post of mine ( the one with the lack of proof or what it was ) for the intercesion answer.

God does help people that don't believe in Him, He answers their prayers to prove Himself, He still loves them you now.
But not all the time.

anything else?
And BTW, -thank you!
( people notice me! )