Israel PM accept U.N. resolution

Terrible move by Israel strategically, but I am glad that there is a chance that the bloodshed will end.

Your thoughts?

 

Agreed, the violence is tragic any way you look at it. Now the trick is getting Hezbollah to disarm. That seems to be very doubtful.

 

Yeah, I doubt it too.
It's like pissing down an underground guinea wasp hole and hoping they will quit stinging you on the dick when you run out of piss... while you stand there waving it at them.

 

What a laugh. This will change nothing.

 

I hope this changes something, but honestly... this is an extremely weak move by Olmert... he surely doesn't want to win the next election. Out of all people in the world... he let Kofi Annan, an anti-semite and arab sympethiser, protect Israel.

Honestly... this is all a publicity move by Olmert. He and everyone else knows that the Hizbollah won't stop thier attacks (or will start them after a short while)... this time, the international community will have nothing to say about Israel. The government is giving peace a chance... I just hope that the Hizbollah actually starts carring about thier people (Lebanese) and stops the attacks.

 

The people of Lebanon essentialy need to expell Hezbollah from the fabric of their society, only than can they cultivate an enviroment of peace and progress. Even now, after a month of bombing, there are many Lebanese who do not support what Hezbollah has done and how their government was sidelined.

 

Oh great, i see the American agenda has seeped down into the mentality of pacifists over there. I didn't actually know what your country thought until now. In Australia, there is a fairly large and educated concensus that asking hezbollah not only to claim a ceasefire but to actually disarm and therefore entirely lay down to israel's continual abuse of their position in the region, is basically just a fucked up joke. Someone please consider the position of these so called islamic fascist terrorists.

Ah yes, acceptance of the UN resolution, how long until they bend the rules to overcome that one.

Sorry, maybe i'm jumping the gun a little here. But from what i can gather, i can see a bunch of smart people, duped. Anyway, heres to the quite comfortable nation that receives more aid from the west than any other country in the world

No its not starve Bangladeshis, its the Israelis!

 

I hope more people die for oil and chimps agenda. If you die in the name of religion its ok. Religious fundamentalism is COOL, its even more fun than drugs.

 

1. Who started the bombing?
2. Who has a history of horrible, megalomaniacal aggression in the middle east and has essentially contributed to the existence of groups like hizbollah?

Well, sadly, the torah does say "An eye for an eye"

Truly, I understand the sins being perpetrated by both sides, but I'll do whatever i have to to stop Israel's role in this conflict being downplayed.

 

That's awefuly idiotic.

You cannot point fingers here, that is the mistake of the international community which made this into a pointless media war as well. You say Israel started the bombings, I can then say that the Hizbollah kidnapped the soldiers, you can say that Israel does not belong where it is, and this can drag onto land ownership in biblical times.

Israel has a history of defending itself. Never has Israel "attacked" anyone without reason. In all historic cases in Israel's history... it had to invade land either to prevent attacks or as a part of a war it didn't start.

Israel is not ruled by religious law for decades now, the Torah is irrelevent.

 

Thats intresting.

I agree with you there. What does war mean in the age of accessible media to everyone?

It means everyone can experience the horrors of war. I agree with Israels position of needing to defend itself. However in a media age, your subjected to the fact that in all wars, there are 3 people who suffer for every one fighter who gets killed.

In the media age that horror gets brought into everyones vision. And the side which has the superior acess to media usually generates more sympathy.

I don't really think it's a bad thing though. I think if more politicians were forced to understand the realities of war, it would become more apparent in their choices. War has always been the history of young impoverished boys dying for affluent old mens visions.

 

No thats awfully idiotic. You took everything I said either far too literally or completely distorted it. So what if Israel hasn't been under religious rule, was that somehow an implication of the superiority of the non-fundamentalist side? Well religious or not, "defending" or not, stop, look and listen and read about Israel's past and the way they have handled foreign policy, carried out wars, disrespected international law. "Israel has not once attacked anyone without reason"? I suppose you say the same thing about the United States?

Ah yes speaking of "reasons", is it difficult for your mind to perceive that the shiite hizbolah might have reasons too?

I admitted that i may be be jumping the gun on your conclusions (which now you've made clear), as well as that, like I said, I am aware of the sins perpetrated by both sides. But like lodog said, Israel and its western allies, have superior access to the media, not to mention, money, weapons and your support. I'm not pointing fingers at all, i'm just bringing a vital question to your attention -Is Israel truly taking responsibility for its actions?

Anyway, as far as pointing fingers goes, you do realise that kidnappings have for decades been an ordinary occurence between both sides. But somehow this one was special? Don't you suspect something a little off?

 

maybe its time to teach the goyim a lesson they'll never forget

 

Thank god Israel disrespects an U.N. mandate every now and then, otherwise it wouldn't exist!

It has a history of being attacked and then retaliating, like any other nation would.

My stance on U.S. and Israeli politics is completely different, you cannot possibly compare the socialist democratic government of 7 million to the republican pure-capitalist government of 100 times that or so.

The Hizzbollah have no reasons. Their only reason is the distruction of Israel... they bloody say so themselves! What other proof do you need?

Israel does not have more access to the media. The international media trails the underdog, which in this case is the Hizzbollah... which kindly staged a lot of the videos and pictures which were taken in Lebanon.

Is Israel taking responsability? Israel apologizes to countries that have no right questioning its actions whenever it kills 1 civilian, while the Hizzbollah directly targets civilians... you see the difference?

This kidnapping followed the kidnapping of another Israeli soldier in Gaza. The terrorists ask for hundreds of prisoners to be set free for one Israeli soldier. Israel, the kind country that it is, actually goes for those deals. A country cannot set terrorists free forever! There is a breaking point.
Kidnappings have never been between both sides. The fundemental muslims kidnapp, and then Israel releases hostages... that is how it works. The only time Israel "kidnapped" someone was in this war when the IDF arrested Hizzbollah members of the Palestinian parliment... and there are no kidnappings in WAR.

 

no doubt you could argue for the existence of concentration camps. i have heard all this kind of stuff before. the same mantra of the far right wing in israel. for you its too late, your mind has set like concrete.

 

As Guy said, i'm probably wasting my time. However

My housemate put it quite plainly last night -
1) Is it conceivable to you that Hizbollah might believe their actions are justified by some sort of war?
2) Is it conceivable to you that Hizbollah are lebanese citizens, supported and voted for by civilians, DEMOCRATICALLY elected by civilians (not to mention many ARE civilians), and that many members of the lebanese government stress that they cannot expel Hizbollah for those exact reasons?
3) Is it conceivable that groups like hizbollah were created in response to those acts perpetrated by those led by what the international community has aptly nicknamed "The butcher of Beirut"?

Don't give me that "Israel is not targeting civilians" bullshit. Their war is being fought on two fronts. Dismantling hizbollah by fighting on the ground, and putting pressure on the Lebanese government by routinely destroying infrastructure, people's homes and human life. I don't deny it, you shouldn't either. Israel are fighting a WAR.

Oh, I love your wording too. Israel releases "hostages". Arresting and holding palestinians (which has been going on for decades between WARS) without charge in decrying conditions in concentration camps is kidnapping as far as i'm concerned.

Like I said in another thread, I'm not ideologically opposed to Israel's occupation of the region, I just think any occupation should be an ethical one.

 

1. The Hizbollah do not need or look for justification for thier actions...that is a fact.
2. The Hizzbolah were not voted democratically into anything anywhere in Lebanon. Where did you get these ideas? Civilians can easily be expelled if international law requires it.
3. Groups like the Hizzbolah were initially created as militia terrorist groups directly targeting Israel started by our dear Arafat.

Ofcourse Israel is fighting a war, I do not deny that... but I also know that Israel does not target civilians. Hell, if it was ME fighting a WAR, I would not care who I target by now... if the Hizzbollah is a part of Lebanon as you say, then Israel should declare war on Lebanon and not the Hizzbollah. The Hizzbollah, on the other hand, directly targets civilians... it is waging a war based on terror.

ALL the Palestinians arrested by Israel have been involved in plots against Israel. There is no kidnapping there!

I myself do not like the occupation. I think Israel should have went in with a strong army right away without bombing. The armed forces director (Ramatkal) is an ex-pilot, which makes him think that he can solve everything by bombs. The only way to deal with the Hizzbollah is to kill them all... it's sad but true... depressingly enough they hide in civilian houses and take civilians down with them.

 

as the iranians say
let the ball roll

 

That is speculation, not backed up by examples and not a fact.

Running in June 2005 elections, Hezbollah won 23 seats in Lebanon’s 128-member Parliament, and holds the Energy Ministry - Source - Australian Jewish News

http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=1113

Where are they going to go? Iraq?

Your point?

It technically has waged war on lebanon. It demands that the LEBANESE government take responsibility for Hezbollah. Which it technically is doing, though not in the way Israel wants, because Hezbollah are part of the government.

I don't justify them, but these attacks are in response to direct attacks on civilian areas in Lebanon.

How the fuck do you know that? Who are you? God? If Israel is so perfect, then Amnesty International might as well remove its Jerusalem office and shutup because they're obviously wrong

At least we agree on one thing.

Don't tell me its not in Israel's interest.

Civilians voted for them, support them, many are them. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

Forgive me for being so blunt here, but I suspect you are jewish.

 

Actually Paul, he's Israeli and a died in the wool moutpiece for every lie and propangandistic claim made by the Israeli state and its IDF military censors.

At 19 he embodies the willful hyper-nationalistic racist indoctrination of Israeli children which has perpetuated the Zionist neocolonialist agenda for more than half a century.

The only victims are the rightful indigenous peoples of the region, not the militant ethnocidal Eastern European Ashkenazi ideologues who established the apartheid state and its exceptionalistic, international law-flouting institutions to the ongoing misery, dispossession and dehumanisation of millions for generations.

Don't ever expect any legitimate response from Rubin, all you'' get is a regurgitation of the "official" state line.