Do any of you have guard or watch dogs, or dogs that are just really protective of their property and friends/family? Did you train them like that, or did it just happen? Our little dude, Kodos, is bullmastiff, boxer, rottweiler and lab. I"ll admit it - we got him mostly because we wanted a puppy and he was the first one that we came across that was absolutely adorable nad well-mannered. We also love bigger breeds or things like rotties, pit bulls, boxers, etc. because we both grew up around dogs like that. There's no denying he's a big puppy. He just turned a year old, and he's around 115lbs. and sits/stands three feet tall. He doesn't even realize his own size or strength, yet. We mostly trained him to be a good "inside" dog because I knew, with him being bigger than me, he would HAVE to be very well mannered and trained good, so I would be able to handle him. He knows all of the basic stuff, like not being allowed to get into the trash or beg for food, don't grab things unless they're given to him, etc. as well as A LOT of "basic" training (by 4 months, he had it all down... sit, lay down, speak, shake a paw/other paw, quiet, jump, hugs, etc.) and how to ask to go outside, basically everything someone could possibly want their dog to know, whether or not they're able to train them that well. Friends always make comments about him being the most well-trained dog they've ever seen, and he's never once even seen an actual trainer or obedience class. He just knows. We never trained him to be a guard dog, but recently, he's taken it up on his own. He isn't neutered yet, and we're planning to wait at least a few more months, if not another year... he's kept VERY well-contained so he won't be getting other neighbourhood dogs pregnant, and he's shown no aggression towards any other dog, ever, including unneutered males. He's VERY protective of me. He listens extra-good when I tell him to do something, never pulls on a leash when I walk him, etc. When my husband does something, like holds me down and tickles me (I squeal, I'm REALLY ticklish) Kodos has to be right there to monitor the situation, it seems. We've moticed that, outside at night (he stays out all night) lately he seems to be practicing his howling, along with a "mean bark" (he never had one before) and attacking things. A few months ago, I gave him an old leather glove to play with. He ignored it, until about a week ago... we caught him outside at night, grabbing it in his mouth and shaking it around, etc. He also grabs his food bowls and teddy bears and shakes them around, paws at them on the ground, growls and barks at them, etc. It seems like he's "practicing" his 'protection' skills. He's also getting MUCH sharper at hearing/smelling and that basic sense of knowing when someone's there that we might not see, etc. We had him inside yesterday (this was the first time this has happened) and somebody walked by our window. His keys jingled as he walked by, and Kodos let out a couple low barks, ran to the door, then ran back to us to let us know that somebody was close to the house (our house is less than 2ft. from the sidewalk in the front, so ANYONE that walks by is close to the house). It started raining and he kept looking up at the ceiling and when it started thundering, whenever it was really loud, he'd make his rounds to make sure everything and everyone in the house was okay. So basically, without EVER being trained (and being incredibly discouraged to ever show any kind of aggression, because of his breed/s and size) he's catching on to the 'guard dog' instincts, anyway. I was walking him a few weeks ago with my brother in law, and one of his friends (he's 15) came up and started pushing him around, play-fighting. I had to tell him to stop, because Kodos was ready to attack and if he really wanted to, I knew I couldn't hold him back. I've had the same thing happen with one of my male friends, when he and another friend were kind of play-wrestling in a field... Kodos is VERY protective of anybody that he knows well enough. But, yesterday was the first time he EVER barked from anyone showing up at the house, or just hearing someone walk by, and it kind of surprised us. It wasn't mean, just a low bark for people in the house to hear, so the person outside couldn't hear him... but he's never ever barked in the house unless we have him "speak". Anyone else have a dog/dogs like this? I'm just kind of surprised, I guess, because he's so SO well trained and we've really discouraged any kind of aggression or even overly-hyper play, because he's so big. I could understand with other dogs, like a chocolate lab that I had when I was younger, because they aren't as well trained, so I understood their excessive barking when people showed up... I'm surprised that Kodos is getting so protective AND letting people know that he is, though, because he's so well trained and so SO not aggressive.
Guarding and territorial behaviors are largely genetic and often don't show up until the dog begins reaching social maturity. With guarding breeds (which mastiffs, Rotts and Boxers all are) the teaching part comes into play with training them when to STOP. Work on teaching Kodos control now since likely the guarding behavior will get stronger as time goes on. It sounds like you've done a great job with him so far! Just keep enforcing basic commands like sit and down as well as teaching him "quiet" or "enough". The most important thing with a guardy type dog is that the owner remain in control of the dog's behavior and not allow the dog to make choices such as what to do or how far to go when acting on their guarding instinct. That said most dogs won't attack a threatening person without actual training to do such a thing. Many times when untrained dogs are pushed into a situation like that and they do bite it is tramatizing for them. I find the vast majority of pet owners no matter what their dog's temperament is believe that out of loyalty their dog would do whatever needed to be done to protect them from a human attacker. So while guarding instinct is fairly normal in dogs to some degree - standing up to someone who is making threats to the dog is fairly abnormal in dogs not bred/trained for such things. Interesting mix of breeds Kodos has (good looking boy though!) - how did you figure them all out?
I agree with BBD that the most important step you can take training him at this point is getting him to STOP on command. Commands like "STOP" "QUIET" and "DROP IT" have proven extremely useful with my big girl. It really is just genetic, and instincts, that cause him to act this way. And when properly guided through this step, it can turn out to be a really awesome trait in the end. My big dog is 1/2 Chesapeke Bay Retreiver, and we met her momma, who was 60-70 pounds. Average CBR size. We got her as a puppy 4 years ago, and all her brothers were brendled, so at the time we figured she was part pit, but since she's grown up to 100 lbs. and filled out so much, now I think she's half mastiff or something. As a little puppy she was always so playful and everything I never thought she'd grow up to be much of a guard dog, but at about 6 months she started getting REALLY defensive about our territory whenever she heard or saw someone nearby. I worked with her and finally got her to chill. The first time I walked her alone in the dark was an ordeal - she got super aggressive avery time she even heard a noise and actually sent one guy running up the street with her bark!(she sounds like a badass). It's just important to keep on them and be clear about what you want every time. Eventually, I had her trained to where people could come over to our house and she didn't make ass. The most defensive she got was still walking at night, when she would stop, wherever we were, sit on top of my feet, and growl until whoever she saw had passed out of sight. This was fine with me. But last year, we left with our brood of furry friends and went on the road for the first time since she was a puppy. It was a lot to get used to, and for a long time it freaked her out. For a little while she was so unpredictable that I didn't even want to take her out and walk down the street, or bring her with us when we sat at a bench in <name the town> tying hemp or whatever. She wasn't sure anymore of what her territory was, so she got really defensive wherever we were. I used the same techniques as when she was a puppy, and retrained her to chill. It was work, but everything came out fine and now she seems more laid back than she ever did before. She no longer barks like crazy, and almost always does what I wish her to even before a command is all the way out of my mouth. BUT, she is still a guard dog. Still barks when we're not around, or anytime she thinks I (or my partner) am in danger. She knows that even though I'm the boss in the pack, she's the muscle. And she wants to fulfill that duty! Your boy will grow out of this phase and into his new role as your protector as long as you continue to give him the proper encouragment. If you don't mind my asking, why are you waiting so long to neuter him? In my experience (which is limited to friends' animals - I've only raised girls) waiting to neuter will only make a dog less predictable and more moody, and prone to what I would call "temporary insanity" (ahem, horny dogs, thinking with their nuts is more like it). You might think about getting him fixed sooner rather than later.
Good post hummblebee However I wanted to mention but didn't in my first post- I think it's a GOOD idea to wait on neutering especially with a very large dog. I know this isn't typical advice. Taking hormones away when dogs are still growing is not the best idea even though it is very PC right now. I have always had at least one intact male and honestly tend to prefer the temperament of intact males for training. Male dogs neutered or not are usually interested in bitches in season. My husband's dog is a corgi who was neutered at 6 months and he would breed my girls when they are in seaosn if he was tall enough. So neutering now vs. later IMO and IME won't change him being interested in females in season if he comes across one. Male dogs intact or not IME are not prone to being moody although girl dogs especially in season without a doubt are. It really is hard to generalize though because all dogs are different. My intact male Jagger isn't unpredictable or moody at all BUT I admit he is a PITA when the girls come in season - very single minded LOL Life is much easier if you don't have intact boys and girls living together There are actually a lot of good reasons to wait for neutering (as long as the owner can be responsible about not allowing the dog to breed). In some breeds, Rotts being one of them the risk of bone cancer is greater in altered dogs. The risk of hip dysplasia is increased in dogs spayed/neutered prior to maturity. Early spaying/neutering causes growth plates to remain open for longer period and will actually tends to increase height but decrease muscle and sex characteristics such as larger heads/muzzles in male dogs. The prolonged growth period is thought to put early spayed/neutered dogs at higher risk for soft tissue injuries as well. Females spayed early have an increased risk of urinary incontinence. Some studies indicate an increase in mounting behavior with dogs spayed/neutered early and noise phobias seem to be increased as well. Dogs spayed/neutered early tend to never totally mature mentally as well as physically. When to spay or neuter your dog, providing you are responsible enough to prevent unwanted litters should be something that is thought out and researched. Common info available is very biased and tends to only highlight the good and greatly downplays the bad. Here are some good links I have on the subject which show some of the lesser mentioned effects of early spaying and neutering: Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk -- Cooley et al. 11 (11): 1434 -- Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & ... Early Neutering
I have a flat-coated retriever and a golden retriever, who are probably more "guard" dogs than they are "protection" dogs. They almost tore the Satelitte Cable guy to pieces when he just charged into the backyard without warning, but I think that that's more of "guard the territory" than "guard the humans". But even though they're big softies and don't show it, I truly believe that if someone came after me, they'd fight. Just in the little things they do, you know? Like, the little one, Lucy, is a golden retriever, which are notoriously known for NOT being good guard dogs. She's my little shadow, and I love her to death. We found her on the highway when she was just a couple months old, and she's been my buddy ever since. She's about 8 months old now, a little over knee height, weighs about 50 lbs. Her favorite things to do include: cuddling against me when I read a book, eating, cuddling against me when I go to sleep, eating, cuddling against my leg when I'm standing doing something, eating, annoying my older dog, Missy, and eating. She's not much of a guard dog, but she loves me. If she sees me walk down the street, she will CLIMB the fence and follow me. She never runs off, she never does it except when I leave. She just likes to be with me. Well, one day, she followed me down to my cousin Christina's house and they have a yellow lab, Ladybug, which also loves me. I'm a magnet for dogs. Anyway... Ladybug runs up and gives me the "Hi!" welcome, wagging her tail and licking my hands and everything. I pet her for a little while and then she starts hitting her forelegs on the grass and her back end up in the air in that "bow" kind of look, you know? And she starts running back and forth and nipping at me in our usual play-fight. So, we start play-fighting. Lucy, who had been a few feet away sniffing at a dead bird or something, comes running up with all her hair up, her little fangs showing, and does a header right into Ladybug's shoulder, growling the whole way. Ladybug backs off, and Lucy sits down in front of me and leans back against my legs with her little teeth showing. She was totally like, "MY HUMAN. DON'T TOUCH." So, even though she's a little sweetheart around me, I think contrary to the "Golden Retrievers won't do anything" myth, she will protect me if I really need it.
P.S. to last post: she won't let me and my older dog play-fight, either. She growls and gnaws at Missy's ears and face to get her off of me. Now, for my babygirl: Missy!! I've had her for almost 7 years now. I got her when I was 10 and couldn't stand not having a dog anymore. She's a flat-coated retriever, 100 pounds, about 3 feet tall. She has long black hair, and looks just like a Golden except she has... you know, black fur. She is a sweetie to people she knows, and she'll lean up against your legs to get you to pet her. Her favorite things include: chasing rocks, going for walks, riding in the truck, eating Pringles, laying on the cold kitchen floor on a hot day, and being chased. Missy is a typical dog, I think. If you come into the yard with me and she doesn't know you, she'll woof at you. Not bark, but kind of a "woof". If you come into the yard and she does know you, she'll wag her tail, lick your hands, ask to be petted, all that good stuff. If you come into the yard without me and she DOESN'T know you... You're going to have a little bit of a problem. She scares the kids in the neighborhood. She's the "big black dog" that barks and jumps up on the fence and makes them think she's going to jump it and get them. She will show her teeth if you get to close, and she's attacked the Fed-Ex guy one time. He saw me in the backyard playing with them, and he had a package and came around the side of the fence and leaned over for me to sign it. Missy wedged herself between me and him and almost took the clipboard out of his hands. She's a scary sight when she's mad. But she's never bitten anyone, but she would if you provoked her enough. So, again, back to my origional statement: I don't know if they're "protection" dogs, but they are definitely "guard" dogs. They'll let you know if someone's out there who shouldn't be, and I think that if someone attacked me and they were around, they would help me. Dogs are just like that, and that's why I adore them.
I think most dogs have a certain instinct to protect/guard. Our dog, possibly the least intimidating ever, stopped and got quite protective when a couple of guys went past yesterday while he was walking with my mother and I. He also always goes to the door with us to see who's there, was not happy about the window cleaner coming by. It's pure instinct because he's friendly as can be; and hey he's a 4 kg cocker spaniel pup [can't even do a proper bark yet], not exactly a prime candidate. So we probably won't encourage him, but I appreciate it because that's kind of his way of caring for us. Our next door neighbours had a rottie & mastiff; really well trained dogs, but so protective. They'd bark at anyone unfamiliar, and made a way of making 'strangers' (their definition I guess) feel really unwelcome in/around the house. If the situation had occured I don't doubt they'd have taken out an intruder. Said neighbours thinking of adopting another rottie pup when their children are a bit older. If they do I'll certainly make friends early on.
We figured out Kodos's breeds because - well, we didn't really 'figure it out' - the people that we got him from knew what he was. Their dog was the mom, and she got pregnant from a neighbourhood dog... so it's likely that he's 1/4 everything that he has in him. That said, he DEFINITELY shows the lab - in his personality. We're very easily able to control him, too. He wears a choke collar (NOT a chain) and if he pulls too hard on a leash, I can grab the extra part of his collar to pull him back. It doesn't seem to bother him, but makes it very easy for me to pull his front feet off the ground, so he can't pull too hard or anything. He's very very well-mannered, surprisingly (especially for a pup his age) and he took to his training extremely early-on (by 8 weeks, he knew "sit" and "shake a paw/other paw"). If he gets too hyper in the house or on leash, I tell him "easy" and he calms down a bit, but we usually just talk to him like he's a kid ("Kodos, calm down!" etc.) and he gets it. I was just surprised - he's NEVER barked in the house before, unless we told him to. And it wasn't loud at all - our friends were over, and they barely even heard him... like something told him that 'mom and dad' were the only ones that needed to know someone was near the house, and the person outside didn't need to know we had a big dog, unless they wanted to find out for themselves. He DOES run to the door when someone knocks or walks in (most of our friends just walk in, this is a huge part of why we don't worry about him hurting people, because he knows them and knows that they're allowed to) but he just does that because he wants to see who's here to play with him, hehe. Another weird thing about him - when he was younger, he was so calm that people thought there might be something wrong with him. I think that's why he's so well-trained now... he never had attention issues or anything as a pup, and always stayed VERY focused on what 'mom and dad' were doing. He still does. I can kneel beside him, hold his collar with one pinkie, throw a toy and tell him to "stay" and he focuses on me until my hand drops from his collar and I say "go". We just started that a couple weeks ago and he's got it mastered, so I don't worry about him actually seriously hurting anyone unless we tell him he's allowed. Otherwise, he'll give a 'warning' if he really feels that it's necessary.
Hehe, our neighbours LOVE Kodos and won't hesitate to come over, pet him, play with him, etc. Our landlord even loves him, and doesn't mind the holes he's dug in the yard or anything... but we keep his messes fairly clean, when he does make big messes (a rare occasion). We had another dog, she was pit bull and boxer, but we gave her to my husband's parents because of her past, and the feeling that they could care for her much better than we could. We couldn't afford another one at the time, and mostly just took her because of everything that she had been through, so we could get her comfortable around people, used to eating, etc. and find her a good home where we could still visit her often. She's also incredibly friendly. We have this theory that, if you have TONS of respect and love for your dogs, they will be the same towards you, and do whatever they can to make you happy. When we can buy a house (outside of town) we'll definitely have a good fence and a few more dogs. I think our next is going to be a pit bull puppy, when we can afford it and have the time to train another little one... and when I can find one to adopt, because that's ALWAYS our first option for getting another dog.
Like I said most pet owners think that but it's seldom true even with breeds bred for such things unless they have been trained in protection work. Sure it happens sometimes but most average dogs if a person threatened them they would not attack. It requires not just loyalty, territorial barking and being a good dog but very sound nerves and the right balance of prey and defense drive. Most people have a hard time accepting that their dogs likely wouldn't attack to "help them". It's not unheard of for shepherds to be turned into rescue because they didn't bit the bad guy who broke in or robbed their owner. I think this has to do with movies, TV shows and books about dogs who are heros. These are usually Disneyfied views on canines though - amazing dogs who babysit the kid, welcome all friends, bite only bad guys, never harm a helpless creature, fight only with bad dogs and can go home an find a "C" clamp under the kitchen sink (LOL favorite Lassie episode of mine). In real life things don't tend to work this way. Sometimes real dogs bite their owner's friends or kids or even them. Real dogs may kill bunnies and fight even with good dogs. Real life dogs often don't know how to react of someone attacks them or their human - many react fearfully. And to make matters worse Jeff was looking for a C clamp the other day and not one of my dogs could find it Really we expect a lot from our dogs in general and the protection out of loyalty is no exception. Even dogs who will come to their owner's defense without training are not going to be reilable with it. They may do so at home or in the yard where they are comfortable but not out in strange surroundings. It's actually a lot of work to train a reliable protection dog and it's not reasonable to expect dogs to be like well trained protection dogs naturally. Sometimes a dog will be pushed into defense drive if something scarey happens. Defense drive is "fight or flight" and dogs who bite in bad guy situations are often reacting because they think their life is in danger. If they feel they must fight they will but it sometimes has a bad after effect which I think of as a doggy post tramatic stress disorder. I know someone who's house was broken into and one of the dogs chased the person away, quite likely having bit the person. In the chase the person was throwing things at the dog. Afterwards the dog became very upset over anyone coming and going from the house and bit (thankfully not badly) a couple guests. This is fairly common in such situations. An agility friend of mine had a HUGE Dobe and while camping one time was walking the dog around a lake. A very drunk man came up to her and started yelling at her. The dog didn't do anything. The man hit her - the dog still did nothing. He was a good dog, was attached to his owner but didn't know what was going on and how he was supposed to act (according to humans anyway). Dogs often look to us as the leaders and they don't understand what makes a bad guy "bad" or human danger. In multi dog fights often times the losing dog is the one everyone jumps in against - even if it was their best buddy two minutes ago. Dogs don't understand the human idea of loyalty but we love them anyway Sometimes, often even the dogs who put on the biggest threat displays are the ones who are bluffing. They put on threat displays of barkings, charging, lunging and raised hackles because they are unsure of what they feel is scarey. These dogs if a person made a move towards them would likely back up a safe distance and keep up with the threat display. One of the best protection dogs I've had is my Dobe mix who was a really a rather cowardly dog. I got him when I was in middle school and he saved me from getting my ass kicked a few times - all he had to do was bark and threaten and people left me alone. I even trained him to do so on cue and he seemed like a protection trained dog. Of course some dogs can get so worked up with barking and the such that they may bite. Usually though when the dog makes that choice it's not what the humans want (such as biting a friend coming in the door). The truth is barking is usually enough especially from big dogs. Most people won't test a big dog let alone a couple big dogs so they do offer protection in that way. Your dogs sound wonderful and well loved - I am in no way trying to say otherwise. And I do hope you never have to find out if they would be like dogs in the movies and come to your defense
I have to say Kudos is very lucky to have such good owners! It sounds like you have done a great job with him
Hehe, well, we got him with the idea that he WAS going to be a big boy (we weren't 100% sure, and his littermate [a friend has him] is much smaller but also looks like a purebred rottweiler) and trained him with the same idea - that he would need to be calm and well-mannered in the house AND outside, because others would automatically be scared of him and, being bigger than I am, I would need to be able to handle him when I was home alone. Like I said, he's never been trained as a guard dog or anything, he just IS. I could leave the back door unlocked (which he has access to from outside when we aren't home, not the front door) and anyone could walk right in, no problem... let him in the house and everything. If a friend tried to come through our back window (again, the one that he has access to and the only one that is reachable, because of our deck) he would probably get pretty hyper about it, but let them. It would take a completely random stranger trying to come in through the back window, for him to seriously rip someone apart... and then, well, they probably deserve it. I KNOW he'd never hurt anyone if he got loose - he loves everyone (dogs included) in our neighbourhood, and even though we live near a park, he absolutely loves young ones and knows to be gentle around them. On the other hand, we could be in the same park later at night, and any random stranger could get attacked by any OTHER random stranger, and I know I'd just have to let go of Kodos and say "go" and he'd be all over the attacker. That's just what kind of dog he is, he definitely senses (and lets us know) when something isn't right, and will voluntarily jump in. Our close friends, on the other hand... well, most of them try not to get him TOO hyper because he's so big, but we can play-fight with him and everything and he'll do everything BUT bite... he'll snap about 1" from your hand, bat you with his paws (watch your face! haha) and jump around, but he's never ever even tried or threatened to bite anyone. My husband doesn't like it, but I'll get right in his face and bark, growl, etc. while we're play-fighting, and he doesn't mind at all. I also taught him to easily take a light smack in the face and just ignore it, because that's how a lot of little kids seem to greet dogs, when they haven't grown up around them.
