Karma

Discussion in 'Buddhism' started by kilted2000, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. kilted2000

    kilted2000 Member

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    I was talking to a Buddhist form Thailand I know and he said Karma isn't the idea of you do good and good stuff happens to you, but actions in this life determain your destiny in other lives. By that I mean if you are evil in this life then you could't be rich or famous in the next.
     
  2. Sebbi

    Sebbi Senior Member

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    What's your point?
     
  3. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

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    Karma is also that which your consciousness is made of. A mutually-dependent arising. Consciousness is a result of karma. You become conscious of what you perceive due to the affects of karma (volitional formations). When you notice and become aware of a change, you become conscious of it. To become conscious of karma is to become attached to appearances, to become delusional.

    Karma is a result of ignorance.

    With loving-kindness and compassion,

    Darrell
     
  4. kilted2000

    kilted2000 Member

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    My point is that based on what he told me we use the term Karma wrong in the West.
     
  5. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

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    Well, the Dhammapada (reputedly the words of the Buddha himself) at the beginning of chapter one says,

    "All that we are is a result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him, as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the wagon.

    All that we are is a result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts, it is made up of our thoughts. If a man speaks or acts with an pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him."

    Now, perhaps these things will only happen in a future life, maybe they'll happen in this one. The point is, every cause has it's effect, and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Buddhism and physics agree; if you push on something, it will push back. There seems to be no reason the return push would have to wait until a future life; I think it is more likely to be more immediate, in this life.
     
  6. loverofthewoods

    loverofthewoods Member

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    karma is simply cause and effect...perhaps the cause effects other lives too...but it definalty effects this one....cause: say i drink way too much alcohol, effect: i get sick


    cause and effect
     
  7. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

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    Karma (or Action) as the second member of the twelve members of Dependent Arisings, usually refers only to one meritorious or non-meritorious contaminated action in a former life, either in the life immediately preceding this life or in any other former life.

    Based on ignorance with respect to actions and their effects, a path of action leading to a happy migration is accumulated. Based also on ignorance with respect to actions and their effects, a path of action leading to a bad migration is accumulated. The former is a meritorious action projecting or impelling rebirth as a human or god of the Desire Realm, and the latter is a non-meritorious action projecting rebirth in a bad migration as an animal, hungry ghost, or hell-being.

    Based on ignorance with respect to the nature of the person, an action of meditative stabilization projects, or provides the power for a happy migration in a Form or Formless Realm; it is a meritorious action which is called 'unmoving' because its effect can reach fruition only in the type of life and level for which it was projected, this corresponding to the type of meditative stabilization.

    An example of an unmoving action is a deed of meditative absorption in the first concentration that projects an effect included within the first level of the Form Realm and which will only ripen in the first level of the Form Realm. An example of a moving action is a deed such as murder that projects an effect included within a bad migratin but which might not actually ripen in a bad migration, reaching fruition in a human life as a form of human suffering.

    Thus, meritorious and non-meritorious actions are 'moving' actions because their projected effects and actualized effects are not necessarily of the same type of life and level even though they may be the same.

    Dependent on the motivational ignorance that precedes and gives rise to them, virtuous actions and actions of meditative absorption lead to rebirth in cyclic existence, albiet in a favorable situation.

    (Meditation on Emptiness - Dependent-Arising of Cyclic Existence - Jeffrey Hopkins - 1938, 1996)

    With loving-kindness and compassion,

    Darrell
     
  8. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

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    Smile ... even when you don't feel like smiling ... and notice the effect you bring about upon others when they look at you.

    Speak kindness ... even when you don't feel kind ... and notice the effect you bring about upon others as they speak back to you.

    Be polite ... even when you don't feel polite ... and notice the effect you bring about upon others as they become recipients of your kindness.

    With loving-kindness and compassion,

    Darrell
     
  9. Spacer

    Spacer 'Enlighten yourself'

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  10. Cloudminerva

    Cloudminerva Member

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    To me, karma is the yin and yang of our lives. What we give, we receive. Once we realize ourselves and liberate ourselves from material or earthly desires we can become one with OM and finally escape the wheel of dharma and reach true heaven forever. After traveling all this time, this life can be the very one which liberates us and unites us with the unseen, the unspeakable, the unfathomale.


    Ben.
     
  11. bjorn

    bjorn Member

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    Traditionally, the concept of karma has had negative[font=&quot] connotations. It has been viewed as a retributive inevitability. However, karma cannot be considered unless its transformational aspect is also considered. Buddhism is not fatalistic. It is incredibly hopeful and every moment of your life is beaming with infinite potential for you to transform your karma into value. Daisaku Ikeda prefers the term mission instead of karma. By surrmounting our obstacles, we can help encourage other people to overcome their obstacles. In this way we become more [/font][font=&quot]courageous[/font][font=&quot] and help others to be [/font][font=&quot]courageous[/font][font=&quot] aswell. Again, Buddhism is about hope. :)
    [/font]
     
  12. loveflower

    loveflower Senior Member

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    this spoke to me :)
     
  13. zerre

    zerre Member

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    Karma is cause and effect, alright. But it does not mean that good deed will bring goodness and bad deed ... It's pure cause and effect. It's so simple that people get confused and say "there has to be more?".

    But when we look at the inner Karma, the causes and effects in ourselves. Good thought will bring good thought, good action will bring good action .. and so, good Karma leads to the Eightfold Path.
     
  14. darrellkitchen

    darrellkitchen Lifetime Supporter

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    Karma doesn't lead to the Eightfold Path, the Eightfold Path is the way out of Karma. It's a path that leads to the elimination of Ignorance, that nothing exists inherently, that all things are mutually dependent arisings.

    The Four Noble Truths teach us about suffering, the origin of suffering, the end of suffering and the way out of suffering. The fourth Noble Truth, the Noble Eightfold Path, which is 1) Right View, 2) Right Intention, 3) Right Speech, 4) Right Action, 5) Right Livelihood, 6) Right Effort, 7) Right Mindfulness, and 8) Right Concentration, is the way out of suffering. http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

    You don't have to follow the Eightfold Path. There is no requisite that says you "Have" to do any of it. You don't have to seek liberation from suffering. Some people rather enjoy their life of pain and suffering so they seek to stay in it ...

    Remember the part in "The Matrix" where the traitor sits at the table stuffing a piece of juicy steak in his mouth and says "Ignorance is Bliss"? You'd be surprised how many people actually feel this way.

    With loving-kindness and compassion,

    Darrell
     
  15. Cornball1

    Cornball1 Member

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    Even in the east there are differences in karma depending on who explains it to you. Some say its the sum of the negative and positive energy you accumulate in this life that determines your next life. So say that karma is what you get for following your life path(dharma) and others simply say its a law of cause and effect. Not do good and good things come to you, but more of a do good and you are in a position to have good come to you. Think of it this way, if you deal drugs and you get cought and go to prision you could say that it was a result of karma(doing bad things put you in a position where bad things happen to you) or say you take care of the sick and one day when you're sick some of those people come and take care of you. I personally beleive in the last view of karma.
     

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