AIDS - it may not exist (huh?)

I posted this in the UK forum a few weeks back but it had no response, so I thought I'd post it here as well.

It seems that there are a group of people who are advocating AIDS is not a real disease but is a result of media and government hysteria

http://healtoronto.com/africa.html

Anyway the more I read about it the more it seems that there is a growing movement of people who no longer think that HIV causes AIDS. These people are being shunned by the 'experts' and pharmaceutical companies in some sort of witch hunt.

It will probably bore the pants off of some of you but this stuff has just fascinated me. It seems that HIV testing is hugely inaccurate, AZT, the main anti AIDS drug, was originally a chemotherapy drug that has horrendous side effects and that most of the the 'cocktail drugs' do not do what they are supposed to.

It also turns out that there are a whole group of HIV+ people around the World who are refusing traditional HIV medicine and surviving for many healthy years.

Anyway, without sounding like someone who believes everything he reads on the net, this stuff is very compelling.

Read more:

Alive and Well

Aids in Africa

Personal Stories

Another Look

 

I will do my best to keep an open mind while reading this, but I am not sure how well that's going to work with this one.

.

Hmm.. not buying this too much. What about all the people who highly benefited and still benefit from AZT. People have lived and do live a lot longer than they used to before AZT. As far as its side effects, that runs into the next question of whether or not to refuse the "cocktail."

This I get. I am not surprised in the least and I am sure this happens a lot. I cannot say how i would deal if I was in that circumstance. We see the devastation of AIDS. That puts us at a loss when thinking about how we want to go about our personal treatment. I can't say for sure what I would do.


Have to think more about this one..

 

That's cool. I just found a link and started following it, I'm not advocating any of it yet as I don't know enough to say either way ... But it sure makes interesting reading.

 

If HIV testing in Africa does not require a blood test, no wonder the results are inaccurate.

But I don't see how a person can believe that HIV is not a precurser to AIDS. HIV affects the T-cells. Slowly attacking one cell at a time, replicating itself a million times, ripping and killing the original T-cell, sending out millions of new HIV viruses to attack more T-cells. AIDS only develops once your T-cell count is below 200. So yes, you can have HIV for "forever", never entering into AIDS, so long as you are able to keep those T-cells from being destroyed. But eventually your T-cells tire out from trying to duplicate themselves so quickly.

Unfortunately, HIV is a retrovirus--meaning it uses 2 RNA's to replicate into our DNA-- and because of this, its is able to mutate. Once a person uses a drug for so long, the HIV viruse mutates, and the drugs are no longer effective. Using cocktails, a person uses many different types of drugs, and so if the HIV mutates to surpass one drug, hopefully another drug will still be effective.

 

My thoughts after reading that stuff were "If HIV isn't a precursor to AIDS then where does it come from?"

I don't know the accuracy about this stuff, but the Africa shit makes you wonder how much the phamacuetical companies are conning people out there.

 

Dr. hulda clark has cured people of aids, hiv, etc...

check it out

 

**BANGS HEAD AGAINST WALL**



How DUMB can some people be?! Ok, I guess I'll spell it out for some of you...



#1--THERE IS NO CURE FOR AIDS!! If there was, that person would (and should) make themselves known, if not for the huge profit factor but just out of respect for humanity

#2--HIV DOES cause AIDS. To whoever said drug companies are conning Africa...WTF? Why would drug companies "lie" about a disease and spend MILLIONS of their money on research if it was all a big lie?

 

Where do they say that aids does'nt exist? Anyways, if they really want to cure aids, their's only one thing they need to do: Find out faster. A contagius virii will always flourish when there is a long period in between when it is contracted and when signs of infection are shown. For example: If you contract some disease that will show signs within an hour, and kill you within two... think how how long you have to pass the disease around. One or two hours. Now if you have a disease that you contract, then not even notice for years and years while it's still contagious, you're passing it on to other people for years and years on end. All they need to do is find out sooner. If they could find a way to know if you have the bug within a day or two, we could keep the problem under control.

 

yes there is a cure. research her yourself. she spends alot of time in court because the pharmacutical companies make too much money off these diseases like cancer!

 

I would like to know....

If there is a cure for AIDS, how come there isn't a cure for the common cold? THese two viruses are very similiar.... As I stated before, and now include, these are RETRO VIRUSES! they only need our copy of DNA to replicate themselves a thousand times, and to MUTATE when need be. and So,.... WIth a "cure", it would only last until another strain can manage to mutate around it, and find another pathway.

Drugs now-a-days are designed to stop the pathway of AIDS... such as, to stop the inhibiting factor of actually entering into our cells.... Or, to stop it from understanding the replication process.... its a very confusing and complicated prosess, but if you want to truly understand it, try to research it... Don't assume everything you read is truth. Anything published on the internet has the ability to NOT have a publisher, peer review, and crap look it over for heresay.

And as stated before HIV = AIDS.... HIV is the virus that leads to the AIDS disease..... AIDS is just a referense to the number of T-Cells in a body. Once T-Cells are lowered, the body can't ward off other diseases, and most always dies from a second illness.

 

Dr. Clark concludes that every illness, or health problem is caused by two things. toxins and parasites.
she has invented several pieces of technology, the major one is named the zapper. the zapper uses radio waves to kill the parasites in the body. then there are several other steps needed including a certain diet, liver, colon and stomach de-tox.
when followed properly, people have fully recovered from terminal cancer, aids, diabetes, poor eye site etc... the list goes on and on.
the reason as stated before that she is not world famous is because the Pharmacutical companies are desperate to keep people on pills.
seriously, research it before you knock it. I personally have seen miraculos (sp?) results from following her advice.

 

On the face of it this is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I have ever read. And I've read a few, and like a good one. Unfortunately not only do we have to tackle pandemics like HIV and incurable diseases like cancer, but we also have to fight this kind of outright ignorance.

I think South African president Thabo Mbeki is one of those who doesn't believe that HIV exists, while the disease rips through his country because of the failures of the ANC to tackle the problem over the past ten years. The Catholic church tells people that condoms do not protect against HIV - this too is proven nonsense.

There is simply too much public domain information and charitable research on these diseases for the "pharmaceutical company conspiracy" theory to wash. Please explain to me how poor eyesight is caused by toxins or parasites. Hopefully this Dr Clark's theories are more rigorous than the above quote suggests because that was written by someone who I'm afraid doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. On the face of it they seem like pure fiction.

Unfortunately for people who don't have any real basis in scientific understanding, life, the body and intangible diseases like these might as well happen by magic. Given that, it's not surprising some of the anti-science tosh people are prepared to believe.

 

They are not more rigorous. This is pure fiction. She has been arrested for practising medecine without a licence. She charges huge fees for her fake cures. Read:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/clark.html

 

actually, this is not bs. my boyfriend has several very serious health problems that conventional doctors have said are all in his head. that's a crock! He knows more about this than i do, but i am seeing results, and she hasn't charged him a dime! he read her book and researched her and bought the zapper, for the first time in over 5 years he is actually feeling better!

i really don't care if you think it's a bunch of bs. but don't acuse me of following blindly or anything else, there is no need for insults!!!! besides, i have talked to several people that followed her advice and stuck to it and were cured of terminal cancer, aids, etc.... and i'm not making that up.

 

unfortunately, you are correct. much like influenza, the can be no cure for aids.


also while on the topic, aids was created by the american government.

 

*bangs head against wall*

grow up and read some books people.

 

Oh my god! Am I really the only sane one on this site?! Please explain to me why the American government would create a disease when it knew it would be paying for it later? The American government has spent billions (albeit it still isn't enough) of dollars on AIDS research--what the hell would the government have to gain by "inventing" a virus?

I can admit that our government has done some pretty evil acts in the past, but in everycase they did it because they saw it as a GAIN to them. Now, what the fuck would the government have to gain by inventing a virus?

 

i don't know if they did invent it or not. but it would make sense, for every disease there needs to be a cure, sure they spend billions of dollars to create the disease, but can you imagine how much they would make over the years in the search of a cure!!!! trillions upon trillions!!!!!! the people spend soo much money on trying to find a cure, where do you think that money goes!

 

Retrofish - having reread your earlier response, I have to apologise if you thought I was insulting you. Although I think if you read what I wrote carefully you'll see that I wasn't making a personal insult, but taking extremely strong exception to the opinions you expressed which are patently ignorant. I don't think stating the fact that you have ignorant opinions on a matter as complex as this is a personal insult; it merely demonstrates a lack of knowledge in an area of specialism. This is not a crime or a mental defieciency, but simply that - a lack of knowledge.

One telltale sign demonstrating your lack of knowledge is that your opinions are all backed up with hearsay and the opinions of the hope-filled but untrained people you've heard of through this quack belief, along with, of course, the self-interested claims of a charlatan "doctor". These are all confirmed "believers" in this theory despite scientific evidence to the contrary rather than unbiased experts who are interested in openly investigating the true mechanisms involved.

Another telltale sign of the falsehood of this belief is that it offers such an easy solution. It reduces extremely complex phenomena, with which experts in the field are struggling to come to terms, to a couple of "common sense" factors which the ill-informed can easily understand and grasp on to. Such as the idea that cancer or aids can be cured simply by buying a "zapper".

Hopefully you will come to understand, in time, if you learn more, the true nature of the mechanisms at work. I'm also referring here to the psychological mechanisms which so often get people such as yourself to believe in untruths simply because they are easier to grasp than the messy reality. For an untrained and immature mind, simple explanations are aways appealing. Much of science is anti-intuitive and an understanding of it can only come from academic learning. I realise it may be impossible for you to fully understand what I'm saying because of where you are in your life and in your mind. All I will say further is don't be so ready to accept easy explanations, try opening your mind to complexities, and try reading a variety of sources on the matter rather than relying on a source which gives you all the answers you want to hear.

As for the original question of whether AIDS exists, there is a very good article on Wikipedia - the free encyclopedia - which is always a model of balance and clarity. Having read this article there is no convincing case that AIDS does not exist, nor that HIV does not cause AIDS. Read the cases for and against:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_reappraisal

Now for AIDS being created by the US government. Anything is possible, but there is simply no evidence to back up this conspiracy theory. There is on the other hand plenty of evidence that AIDS is a variant of various simian immunodefiency virii. There is a claim that the UN's vaccination program, making use of monkey and chimpanzee organs in its preparation of an oral polio vaccine might have been the method of transmission of the disease from simians to humans. That might be what some people are thinking of.

 

I spent a good part of my post doctoral studies using gene sequences encoded by the HIV genome to study how the virus proteins assemble into infectious particles. Now there is absolutley nothing different to that virus than a whole host of other retroviruses some of which had been known to cause cancer long before HIV and AIDS were known about. The difference is HIV kills T-cells rather than immortalizing them to cause leukemia. Infact its very closely related to these oncogenic cancer causing retroviruses.


The thing about retroviruses is they encode almost identical genes to genes already in our cells naturally, in other words they probably came about by pieces of DNA or RNA going it alone at some point in vertebrate evolution, or RNA in the case of retroviruses (that generate DNA from RNA). Given the homology between these types of genes there is no other explanation for the existence of diseases such as HIV other than a co-evolutionary path between host (humans) and virus (HIV) so all those conspiracy theories about synthetic viruses are really a bit silly. AIDS is as probably as old as man himself, probably existing in isolation somewhere only to be spread during colonialization and industrialization in the 20th Century