Okay, I went to the synagogue the other day for friday night service which was fine. I got to hear hebrew, both spoken and sung and found it to be beautiful. The rabbi invited me to eat with his family which was great because it meant I got to talk theology with a learned man. Well, all he and his family freakin' talked about was Sports, Sports, who was getting married, and sports! I was sooo disappointed. They were EXTREMELY condescending and then, at the end I thanked them for their hospitality and asked if I could hug them and they (the rabbi and his wife) both looked at eachother uncomfortably and said "Nah, thats alright". I refuse to take part in a religion that excludes people on the basis of their birth, for goodness sake, I wanted to talk about God... am I really that unclean? I left with a VERY bitter taste in my mouth.
Well man that sucks a lot and they would make me angry also, but just remember that it is only one person/family. It doesn't mean that everyone there is like that. But, yeah that sucks.
Moonlight, what Wilson said. In any religion you're going to come across people you don't feel are really living according to their path, as well as people through whom the light of the Divine really shines, and that goes just as much for clergy as for lay people. If, through your investigating into the religion, you have found that Judaism, in one of its forms, fits you, then you might want to probe a little deeper. If, on the other hand, the religion isn't really the best fit for you, you might want to find something that will mesh better. You might also want to consider that possibly the reason they weren't doing a ton of God-talk with you isn't because you're not Jewish but rather is because it was a regular Friday night for them, and for them, what they were doing is Shabbos. A rabbi I knew told me a story once about this really big scholar in Israel. He was a really religious guy, and very learned. Every Shabbos he would read comic books. So when people would say to him, "Hey, it's Shabbos. Couldn't you be doing something a little more holy?" He would reply, "Every day of the week I study holy seforim. We're supposed to make Shabbos special and distinguish it from the other days of the week, and I never get to read comic books during the week. For me, this is Shabbos."
That makes sense, and I appreciate the comments. Its just that I've NEVER in my life felt more rejected. Basically I felt like they thought I was contaminated, and whats more is all they could give a damn about was whether or not I had jewish blood and not what my views were. Its true, this was one family (orthodox, so I probably seemed quite nasty), and it isn't fair to base my opinions of Judaism on my experience of them alone but I walked back to the University feeling very hurt, and unwelcomed. ESPECIALLY because he (the rabbi) and his wife were all hugs and kisses with every one else. They were singing hebrew songs and wouldn't let me clap with them! How flippin insulting is that!?! How many other families could these folks represent?
You just hit the nail on the head about the problems with Judaism in the first place. This is part of the beauty of Christianity, that it is not based on race, blood lines, or anything else except the fact that God universally loves the human race and calls everyone to Himself. It was in fact deliberately designed to transcend all of those man-made boundaries. Not to say that all Christians are shining examples of what they believe, because they're not. However, how many Jewish missions are there around the world whose purpose is to convert non-Jews? There aren't any. Judaism doesn't really seek converts and basically never has. There's a reason for that. Either God loves and calls the whole human race to salvation to be members of the same family or he calls a select few and leaves everybody else out. I think you just figured out which religion does the latter.
Moonlight, it sounds like you had a really terrible experience. I've never heard of anyone being treated like that. Most shuls are welcoming places. That's not even an example of Orthodoxy. Most Orthodox Jews are good people and would most likely want you to enjoy yourself, as a guest in their home. And as a guest who doesn't know much about Judaism, they'd probably also explain things to you too. I really can't understand why they treated you so poorly, and I'm really sorry that happened to you. Yes, there is a reason. Judaism does not believe that a person needs to be Jewish in order to be in good with God, so there's no reason for us to evangelize. According to traditional theology there are 613 mitzvot (commandments) for Jews and 7 for non-Jews, so another reason we don't seek out converts is because it's easier for a non-Jew to keep up their part than it would be if they were a Jew. Judaism is simply a particular covenantal relationship between one nation and God, which is entirely open to accepting new people, but does not see it as necessary that all of humanity become Jewish in order to be on the right path. Nor does this covenantal relationship necessarily mean other people can't be in different relationships with God. I would suggest this link for you, which deals with the similarities and differences between Judaism and Christianity and is one of the best pages I've seen for Christians to pick up a little about what Judaism is actually about, because it's comparing and contrasting it with what they already know. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparing_and_contrasting_Judaism_and_Christianity
moonlight, also, some Orthodox people do not touch members of he opposite gender. It isn't contamination, but a limitation on gender relations. Perhaps see about less-stringent families. On shabbos, we talk about lots of things as this is the time we are together as family. I ask that poker and business get dropped from the list, but after that, anything goes. What do you talk about on Thanksgiving or your own religious holidays? my experience is that people talk about life, whatever it might be. I'm sorry that your assumptions were not reality. Is it the family's fault for not living up to your unspoken desires? a note on conversion, if you convert under Reform, right of return is not a guarantee.
Its absolutely not the family's fault for not living up to my expectations, and I can forgive that. I was expected something holy from humanbeings and that is not fair to them or me but I didn't want to talk about theology and God because it was Shabbos, I wanted to talk about them because thats what I love to talk about on any day at any time anywhere with anyone, but I was SO excited about talking with learned people. Well, I learned a lot about basketball, learned a lot about all their extended family's weddings, heard a lot of songs I wanted to participate in but wasn't aloud I'm still recovering emotionally because I feel like I've been rejected from something I was so passionate about before. Of course, I was basing my view of judaism on books and so it naturally seemed more holy than other religions but I see now that it is run the same way for the most part in the sense that human beings are not always so great.
Ok, moonlight, have you talked to the family since? Perhaps there is a study group that will meet your needs and desires. here is what my response is bsed on, from your OP: The rabbi invited me to eat with his family which was great because it meant I got to talk theology with a learned man. Well, all he and his family freakin' talked about was Sports, Sports, who was getting married, and sports! I was sooo disappointed. A side note, at our kiddush, we dabble or get clarification on the Torah portion, but the only time we delved into real discussions was when Matisyahu stayed with our rabbi. He asked for a copy of the siddur and was off on the type of debate you seem to crave! now, the people who showed up wanted to hear about Trey, touring and Matis' personal story, but M wanted to discuss Torah.
i think i could explain....in the reallllly orthadox jewish religion ur not suppost to hug anyone but ur wife, its considered a SIN for some reason...dont take it personaly. he seemed like a nice guy from what u wrote, just cuz he didnt hug u didnt mean he doesnt like u or he WONT ACCEPT U, think about it. my sister accidently bumbped into this really orthadox jew in isreal and he jumped back and looked at her like she was crazy...thats just another example. so dont worry b happy
Not all religious leaders spend all their time talking about God, keep that in mind too. I've friends of mine whom are priests in the Catholic church, and at the end of the day, truth be told, they'd rather talk about anything but God. Sports and movies are often a topic of conversation. It would be the equivalent of going to a hockey player's house and expect to only talk about hockey. Constantly talking about one subject isn't everyone's cup of tea.
exactly. Matis won't touch females, but he does treat women as smart and valuable people. My rabbi shakes hands. Ahh... you can take a boy out of Crown Heights.... It's tough for me since i'm a hugger, but like business relations, you kearn how to behave, and the back to orthodoxy people are often most rigid. Talk to the rabbi and see when you could talk shop with him. maybe this was the first rebuff which is part of conversion.
I think I've gotten to finally understand where he was coming from. It was one GIGANTIC misunderstanding.
Retain your individuality - who needs to fit - you only felt offended because you didnt feel like they thought you were worthy - but any society that protects itself with a layer of stand-offish behaviour and denial sensibilities is obviously not about the pleasantries of just the uniqueness of individuality - in other words its a racism or a culturalism that you thought infected those relationships - and who needs it? Better to be on the outside looking in - than on the inside looking in !!!
Or maybe it's just an unfamiliar approach to modesty that she did not fully familiariarize herself with before approaching (and I say this as someone who does not observe those strictures.)
