What are your thoughts on the whole obesity thing? Should things like ‘fat pig’ be relegated to that pile of things like Paki that are just not acceptable or what? And if someone is overweight or obese whose fault is it, genes, society or is it just there own fault? Do the obese deserve our sympathy or should they be shouted at?
i think obese people deserve to be tied to a cannon and flogged . seriously tho some people are born that way (genes) . most overweight people i meet seem to be jolly .
paul Is that not true of other people I mean isn’t it a cliché when applied to fat people? Like saying that people with glasses are intelligent? “Fat people are jolly” So what does that mean other people are not jolly? Why not “Fat people are sexy” “Fat people are witty” Etc etc ** I’ve met large people that are jolly and those that are sad and sometime those that were jolly were sad and those that were sad were happy. I’ve also known overweight people that are sexy and intelligent. So what you might ask Well there is a big thing these days about categorising people as over weight or not, and judging them on it. Fat people shouldn’t get medical treatment, fat people should be eligible for fertility treatment, fat kids should have extra lessons like the kids with leaning difficulties. If it is genetic wouldn’t it be a bit like doing the same to someone that was born blind or leg-less, doesn’t it snack of eugenics? And if it’s not genetic why are some people bigger than others?
I would just like to take the opportunity to bow down to your superior punning skills Now I have truly seen a master at work!
Sometimes I think people are inclined to be slightly fat, but I think it’s mostly down to diet and exercise some people like eating more than other people. Years ago I used to do hospital visiting and you would get lots of people who were in hospital because of something they were choosing to do to themselves, like smoking, or overeating, or under eating drinking or drug abuse. It’s a bit of a mystery why they do it after a time I just came to accept that people do their stuff personally I think there is nothing wrong with say not giving a replacement liver to a alcoholic, or expensive fertility treatment to very overweight people if its less likely to work with them and they aren’t willing to diet . as all medical treatment is to a extent rationed
dont you think its funny how goverments can pluck money outta thin air for wars (death) but not life " your statement to me stinks off prejudism .
The Healthnazis are after your money, and fear is the best way to get it. Reading the rubbish they print about weight and health in newspapers and magazines is akin to reading Mein Kampf. It's mostly all lies, certainly the part about putting a strain on the health service. Sorta in the same way that the government lies about drugs and smoking.
There is an undeniable genetic element involved I'd say, one that has to, if you'll pardon the pun, weigh in alongside diet and exercise. My friend can't watch Little Britain because there are too many fat jokes in it - in fact he tends to find fat jokes as bad as racism or sexism. Perhaps they're just as offensive, but there is also an element of lifestyle involved in being fat that is absent from one's gender or race. After all, if it was purely genetic, then why the prevalence of obesity in rich countries where diets are the fattiest. Maybe it is harsh to make jokes about it, it must be very hard for some people. But then I don't mind racist jokes, as long as they're meant in the spirit of fun and not hatred, and not intended to offend. One can be too PC about things. And yes, society does have a responsibility to its obese, but so too do the obese have to themselves....
I don’t think being overweight is beyond the person who is overweight control, eating is something you choose to do and if your becoming overweight you should be able to see this and cut down on the amount you eat . The same thing I think applies to drug abuse and drinking and no I’ve never done any to the extent that’s it’s affected my health. If I wound up in hospital because of something like that I would take notice and change my behaviour the same would apply if I wanted fertility treatment I would diet or take some exercise to get it . If you take case of the liver to the alcoholic, how would you feel if you were member of a family that had a non alcoholic waiting for a liver and saw it given to someone who ruined their replacement liver by drinking . I have an alcoholic in the family with liver damage and I would miss him if he died, but if it came to giving the liver to him or someone that wasn’t going to ruin a second chance that person would get it. And the argument about governments being able to fund wars is a red herring. I haven’t supported their recent wars but I don’t think we could do with no military spending at all and even if we did that wouldn’t effect things like a lack of liver replacements I don’t think that a link between being overweight and ill health is a lie . if your carrying much too weight you are causing stress to the body your joints have to carry extra load so are more likely to wear out ect ect
Obesity... over weightness? Hmm.. well my experiences of it was, i used to be tiny, skin little thing - i hated myself, i was fixated on the idea i was fat and an ugle person. When i started being happy person i started to put weight on. I am a whole person, confident, happy enjoying my life and now i'm considered over weight. For me weight has become a little bit of an issue i get told i'm fine, but sometimes i feel not so great.. the odd unflattering photo and what not. I'm not really fat by any means i'm squidgy and not exactly the perfect size anything. I don't think its genetic your fat, i think its your up bring its the experiences you have in your life, what you do with your life and your frame of mind.. its your own fault whatever size you are, but its also metabolic rate etc. Everyones different so you can't say obese don't deserve sympathy one way or another they've become an unhealthy weight and its up to them to sort themselves out, if thats what they want. We're packing on the pounds because we're becoming an inactive society, computers, films easily reach entertainments a car away at the most. We also indulge our sense more and more through this, and through food. We eat alot of addictive foods, chocolates, sugary foods, take aways and generally bad things for us. We don't look after ourselves, in many ways we've not really been taught to do so or if we have they've been advertised in such away that it seems uncool, unpopular, sad or just generally pathetic to do it. We don't know how to look after ourselves properly and a lot of the time we just dont' care. We want quick answers to long term problems, we've become a generation of get fit quick schemes that last for the moment and not for a long time. We've forgotten how to do things properly...
A very sound post, I agree with most of the points you made. However you say it's not genetic, but that we all have different metabolic rates - that is genetic. Diet, exercise and lifestyle probably are the most important factors, but its like multiplication. If someone has a faster metabolism, these things will affect them in quite different ways....
In the case of such a fundamental biological drive things are a little bit more complicated than eating being simply something you "choose to do". To an extent we are driven to behave in certain ways by autonomic processes over which nonetheless we may have some control. There is undoubtedly a genetic element to obesity... but genetic drives like this would only give a person a propensity to become overweight, it would normally involve poor lifestyle choices too. So the truth is somewhere in between the two polar opposites this debate naturally falls into Yes there is a proven link between obesity and increased risks of heart disease, arterial sclerosis, etc.
There's also the case of people with the disorder where they don't know when they're full, always feel hungry and find it hard to stop eating as a result. That definitely isn't their fault....
am i pissed or is your typing gone smaller .shit man cos i have a bevy jonny wont replace my liver if it fails on me after 50 years of age .........maybe i should stick to suckin lollipops "but their again i might come across a paramedic who does"nt suck lollipops and he has the right to let me choke to death .......yeah right your post still stinks of prejudice .
Perhaps we should take advice from the ''Tax the Fat'' documentary on channel four, taxing people for being obese will encourage them to lose weight which will decrease their risk of diabetes and heart disease, people already pay duty on tobacco and alcohol so why not put tax directly on people who are obese or tax fatty foods?
A tax on fatty foods might make sense, and is more fair than taxing people for being fat or denying them healthcare. It might encourage people to make better decisions.
Why not just give people a list of things they can and cannot do when they are born? Honestly, it's about freedom of choice, you cannot stop people from living the lives they wish to, and it amazes me that anyone would want to. You people watch far too much TV.
This might make you think again about the supposed medical drawbacks of being overwieght, it is from the June 2005 issue of Scientific American Magazine (I only have the audio version, but found this copy on the web) ** Obesity:An Overblown Epidemic? by W. Wayt Gibbs “A growing number of dissenting researchers accuse government and medical authorities--as well as the media--of misleading the public about the health consequences of rising body weights Could it be that excess fat is not, by itself, a serious health risk for the vast majority of people who are overweight or obese--categories that in the U.S. include about six of every 10 adults? Is it possible that urging the overweight or mildly obese to cut calories and lose weight may actually do more harm than good…” Read More http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/fatoverblown.html “…a new and unusually thorough analysis of three large, nationally representative surveys, for example, that found only a very slight--and statistically insignificant--increase in mortality among mildly obese people, as compared with those in the "healthy weight" category, after subtracting the effects of age, race, sex, smoking and alcohol consumption. The three surveys--medical measurements collected in the early 1970s, late 1970s and early 1990s, with subjects matched against death registries nine to 19 years later--indicate that it is much more likely that U.S. adults who fall in the overweight category have a lower risk of premature death than do those of so-called healthy weight. The overweight segment of the "epidemic of overweight and obesity" is more likely reducing death rates than boosting them. "The majority of Americans who weigh too much are in this category," Campos notes. Counterintuitively, "underweight, even though it occurs in only a tiny fraction of the population, is actually associated with more excess deaths than class I obesity," says Katherine M. Flegal, a senior research scientist at the CDC. Flegal led the study, which appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association on April 20 after undergoing four months of scrutiny by internal reviewers at the CDC and the National Cancer Institute and additional peer review by the journal” **
