Why do all these christians say that everyone hates them/christianity? Here in America (I can't speak for other countries), the vast majority of the people are christians, something like 85%. You are not under attack. What you think is an attack on your religion is an attack on those who want to make it an official religion, or who want specail rights. People who want religious symbols in courtrooms, [christian] prayer in schools, etc. But this country was founded on the sound principle of seperation of church and state. The founders saw that government corrupts religion by introducing politics into it, and religion corrupts government by limiting freedoms. No one is attacking or hating christians, it just seems that way because christianity is the dominant religion here. If a muslim or a hindu were trying to get the government to support their religion or have their prayers in school, there'd be just as much opposition to it by those who love freedom (including christians). I realize there's always some people out there who are more militant (on both sides, though, to be fair), but the majority of atheist and those of other religions generally don't hate christians. I really don't get why people think that... Here, read this: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/AntiXtian.txt
Hmmm. Personally, I don't experience a lot of persecution for my religion in person where I live, it's just that those who aren't Christians usually seem to think Christians are crazy fanatics or something, that's about as far as it goes here. At least what I've experienced anyway. I get the majority of persecution from people on the internet... where everyone is behind their screens and therefore not afraid to act like asses and pick on someone else just because they can. Like Hipforums, for example. I've found the best of the best on here.... the best "nice and loving" people and the best "nasty and mean" people. I'm not going to really get into the subject of persecution outside of what I've experienced, because I don't wanna blabber on about something I don't know everything about. But I will say that I read that link you posted, and I found myself disagreeing with most of what I read... in my personal experience, life as a Christian is not as hard as it is suggested on that page. There's my two cents.
i gotta agree with the OP. seperation of church and state means exactly that. it's in no ways an attack on christians, since you're still perfectly capable of praying in church whenever you feel the need, no one is going to stop you. there's just not a prayer lead by the officials of the school, which are employed by the state. it's not an attack on christianity, it's a defense of non-christians. that being said, christians are attacked by non-christian fanatics every bit as much as the christian fanatics attack non-christians. peopole are angry assholes, what can i say?
My particular city has a very large Christian population. Maybe even a majority. (something of a 'Bible Belt' as Americans call it) Having said that, there are still a lot of people who view it as 'suspicious' or feel the need to 'guffaw' if they find out Im Christian. Just yesterday, I was trying to organise a 'Help Crew' to give an older disabled gentleman something of a 'While you were out' style renovation day. I asked his daughter if there was a way we could do this somehow. She was almost instantly offended and asked if this was some 'Christian' thing... then said "If so then you can take your Christian Pity somewhere else!" It was surprisingly hateful in tone. Well, things were cooler after I explained it has zero to do with pity - its giving back to the community what the community deserves and should be getting anyway. I can see the reasoning for some of the contempt though - there are far too many shit-head Christians who probably DO want to 'show off' or be condescending. I dont like them either - I just know they are a certain minority inside the Faith.
Of course none of it is as bad as it said. It's a parody. If you switch the word "christian" for "atheist," and "atheist" for "christian," then you see that the site was a joke, meant to illustrate a point... Anyways, so far, you guys seem to get what I'm saying. And as far as some people actually being assholes to christians, well...it goes both ways. Christianity is the only religion I know of that actually goes door to door harassing people, trying to make them convert.
Although many are titled as Christians most people in the U.S are not true Christians -These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.-Matt. 15:8 Not everyone that claims to be a Christian is truly Christian ... only God knows for sure.
You really do not have a big problem with that. I think Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons do this occasionally. This is really an 'asshole' problem in your life? Why? You had to answer the door once in the last two years and say "No thanks"?
i don't really find the missionaries to be offensive, they're doing something harmless that they feel is of great spiritual importance. just like muslims on their pilgrimage. though if in a bad mood i may not be in perfect harmony with my own temper. i HAVE had a couple instances where over-zealous missionaries have lost their cool with me, but pretty much EVERYONE will lose their cool with me at some point or another. though i do shake my head at their own bad behavior. what if i was not already reading my bible and loving christ? i'd probably NEVER consider it after being treated awfully.
i wish that i could suffer more persucution for my faith so that i could share suffering alongside my saviour jesus christ... we have it relatively easy in the western world, further afield there are people being torured, beaten and killed for their faith...its scary and shocking and we need to get behind our brothers and sisters in prayer.. we we know as followers of christ and enemies of the devil that the world will hate us, we are to take this as a priviledge and stand up for god in every circumstance... we have a battle on our hands and we must equip ourselves to be ready for it...but the greatest thing of all to rest upon when sufferin persuecution is..jesus already has the victory! were fightin a battle god has already won praise the lord!!!
It's just annoying, and I was using it to make a point. My dislike of missionaries is a whole other thread, or it could be, anyways. I'm just saying the religion is rather in-your-face, and that may contribute to why people of other faiths find it irritating at times. Tolerance is one of my favorite virtues, but it's hard to be that forgiving when you have some guy on a street corner handing out copies of the new testament telling you that you're gonna burn in hell unless I change my life [and my religion]. It's happened to me more than once, believe it or not (and no I don't pick fights). (oh, and whether a person is a "real" christian or not is irrelevant, they call themselves that, so that's what I have to go by.)
That's kinda weird... And why would you wish other people to be so ignorant and hateful as to make your life miserable? Aren't you trying to get rid of that kind of evil?
It is true that America has the largest Christian count, however, this 85% you mention is including those that don't truely understand what it is to be Christian. On that note, just because you go to church on sunday doesn't make you a Christian, or if you help someone cross the street. Americas view on Christianity is severely misconstrued. That would be why your percentage is so high. I am sorry, but you are wrong. The group of people that came over here originaly wanted freedom from the catholic church. Our government, once formed, based it's decisions on The Word of God, ie The Bible. Everything they did was based on the Christian faith. As a matter of fact, it wasn't to long ago, that our government changed The Pledge of Allegiance to represent one nation under God. Our court rooms used(I haven't been in court in a long time, so I don't know if they still do) a Bible to swear in people. Most everything you look at that this government was built on was based in whole or in part of The Bible. I personaly remeber when they took prayer out of schools. You know what we did, we went and prayed before school started in front of the school. Don't tell me my faith and God aren't under attack. When a school is allowed to teach evolution, greek mythology, and many other things, but not creation, I consider it an attack. Again, I think perhaps most of the hate is directed to those that think they are christians when in fact they are not. I have said it before, and I'll say it again; If you see a person claiming to be a Christian and saying "God hates fags" you aren't lookign at a christian, you are looking at a misguided soul. Yeah, those aren't real Christians. Sorta like those closet cowboys. You know they ones, they wear the boots, wrangler jeans, cowboy hats, and yet, that's all there is to it. Yeah, we real Christians call those fake Christians Sunday Christians. They live their sundays for God, and the rest of the week for themselves. To end it all. Tell me how your life is affected by a Judge in a coutroom hanging the Ten Commandments up? Or How your life is affected by a Bible on a pedistool in front of a couthouse? Or how "In God we Trust" is printed on our money affects you. Or even "one nation under God" affects you. Oh wait, those things are bad, and we shouldn't force that on anyone, however, while we are sayign don't force things, we are gonna make homosexual marriage legal.....Fine, you take away my God, I'll take away your marriage.
Good point! It's funny how a judge can decide that we are in contempt for, "imposing", our faith on others, however, laws say that if someone's sexuality is being imposed on us and we don't get a say since they are, "exercising their freedom." It's alright for those who are affected over seeing a Bible in public, however, if we complain about seeing two members of the same sex making out, we're looked down upon as close minded. But in the end there is no need to worry. God will avenge his name. New bumper sticker?
Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. The reason appears obvious: the Declaration mentions God. (You may notice that some Christians avoid the Constitution, with its absence of God.) However, the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government (the Constitution). The Declaration aimed at announcing the separation of America from Great Britain and it listed the various grievances with them. The Declaration includes the words, "The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America." The grievances against Great Britain no longer hold today, and we have more than thirteen states. Although the Declaration may have influential power, it may inspire the lofty thoughts of poets and believers, and judges may mention it in their summations, it holds no legal power today. It represents a historical document about rebellious intentions against Great Britain at a time before the formation of our government. Of course the Declaration stands as a great political document. Its author aimed at a future government designed and upheld by people and not based on a superstitious god or religious monarchy. It observed that all men "are created equal" meaning that we all get born with the abilities of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That "to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men." Please note that the Declaration says nothing about our rights secured by Christianity. It bears repeating: "Governments are instituted among men." The pursuit of happiness does not mean a guarantee of happiness, only that we have the freedom to pursue it. Our Law of the Land incorporates this freedom of pursuit in the Constitution. We can believe or not believe as we wish. We may succeed or fail in our pursuit, but our Constitution (and not the Declaration) protects our unalienable rights in our attempt at happiness. Moreover, the mentioning of God in the Declaration does not describe the personal God of Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who held deist beliefs, wrote the majority of the Declaration. The Declaration describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy and might even appeal to those of pantheistical beliefs, but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.
I don't think that they stick to the Declaration of Independence for proof, nor do they need to. There are many other instances of their writings where their beliefs show through. I can give you are more exhaustive list later, but here are three: John Adams wrote about the Bible that a goverment based solely on the Scripture would be an amazing and great government. I can get the quote for you later. George Washington prayed to Christ daily. Many of his prayers are published. John Witherspoon (from Pennsylvania I believe) was a Presbyterian minister and a signer of the Declaration of Independence. I also think I remember reading that he led Congress in prayer, but I am not sure on that. I have heard that "many" of the founding fathers were Deists, but just a cursory glance through some of their other writings just really doesn't seem to imply that. Paine, of course, is a notable exception. Franklin could go either way. I will need to do more research. Can anyone justify why they think that the founding fathers were Deists and not Christians?
many scholars and leaders during those days were deists. age of enlightenment coming along with some new ideas and evidence of a different working of the world than what they were taught in church when younger. while some people would like to claim they were all deists, i don't think they all were.
Christianity is what keeps the south backwards. Isn't there something in the bible about how Christians will be persecuted? I feel that Christians try to read into to any little thing to make that prophecy come true. The future belongs to progressive thinking.....something christians are incapable of.
i dont wish other people were more ignorant and hateful..i pray for the opposite, but i know we live in a world filled with evil and that evil is on the increse...and when i read the accounts of Paul in the new testament and i hear of his great suffering and how he was in chains for the gospel i feel compelled by that...we are called to take persecution as a priviledge, to be allowed to suffer alongside Jesus Christ for the name of Jesus Christ to be exalted. i dont want persecution in the world to increase, but i would consider it an honour to be persecuted for my faith..just as i would consider it an honour to be martyrred for my faith
