Was this harrassment?

I have no problem with guys commenting on my breasts. I'm a natural D cup and am proud of it. But yesterday when I was walking to the public library some guy said; "You got some nice titties girl. Can I see them?" When I said no because it would bother my fiance this dude goes; "Well, he isn't here." He made me feel kind of funny, so I walked away as fast as I could. I'm not a feminist so I have no problem with sexual comments (and yes I know not all feminists are like this), but he made me feel REALLY uncomfortable. Was I harrassed?

 

Any unwanted sexual comments or advances are considered harrassment.

If it was extreme enough for you (being open to some sexual commentary) to feel uncomfortable, then yes you were harrassed.

Personally, any remarks about my breasts by someone I am not close with...especially a complete stranger, I consider harrassment. But that's just me.

If you feel that you were harrassed, then yes, you were. And that sucks. Once, when I was a waitress, I was wearing a tanktop under a pair of overalls (we had no dress code). This older man said that I looked cute...I said thanks. Then he asked me if I had panties on!! I said, that it was none of his business and he needed to leave right now. I left him to get the manager, but he had already left. Some people have no couth or respect!

 

First off, you can be a feminist without being labeled as an angry butch lesbian, so although you added that "I know not all feminists are like this," you needn't harbor any of those kinds of ideas. That's always the vibe and message I get from girls who make a POINT of announcing that they are not feminists. It seems like the only reason this would need to be expressed is to defend one's feminity.


If a "feminist" has women's best interests in mind, why would any woman not desire this identity? At a root level, I mean. It's very peculiar to me.

I personally think that for a man to ask to see your breasts is harrassment. You don't walk over to a big guy and ask to see his balls, do you? It would be considered completely ridiculous! He has absolutely no right to ask you and then to further push the issue once you say no, for Christ's sake.

I understand what you're saying about sexual comments - if they don't bother you or you like them, that's fine. Women's sexual power is huge. Just protect yourself. Don't hang around strange guys who are asking to see your breasts...

 

I wouldnt give it much thought. You shoulda laughed and said "Sorry, them's the brakes" and kept walking

 

I have no idea what "being a feminst" has to do with whether or not you were sexually harrassed? Are womyn who do not consider themselves feminist supposed to put up with more sexually inappropriate shit from assholes or something?

You were harrassed. WHY in God's name did you think you owed this person an explaination as to why he couldn't see your breasts? You gave him the idea that if there wasn't a boyfreind you would have done it? WTF?

Whether you "consider yourself a feminist" or not, you still have the right not to be sexually harrassed (and you can thank feminist for bringing you that right...) The man was a pig. You owed him nothing. Especially NOT an explaination, he had NO right to say to you what he did. Next time something like that happens DO NOT engage the sexual assailant in conversation, ignore him and walk away.

One nice thing about feminism, it teaches one to have self respect, self love, and an ownership of one's own body. You don't "owe" strangers explainations as to why they can't sexually assault you............

Here is something you might want to rethink. YOU need to gain ownership of your own body. Men don't "comment" on womyn's breasts in public to "be nice." They do it as a form of harrassment and power and control. If you don't have a problem with someone disrespecting you (which ALL comments like this are-disrespect) you really need to learn some SELF respect. And you don't have to join NOW to do that........

 

i'm not going to stand and fight every shit who gets all pervy. sometimes, when the situation is silly and such a thing comes up, i'll return the obnoxiousness favor and not be offended. but going into a library, and it's someone you've never met before? fuck it, he's an ass. that's harassment.

 

You should have asked to see his balls first, if he said 'no' then you could have explained to him that no balls means no breasts, if he said yes and showed them to you, then you should have kicked him squarley in the balls and made some witty retort such as 'how do you like them apples?'.

If I was a woman I'd kick some sexist arse.

 

Yes, if it bothered you or made you feel uncomfortable it's harrassment, especially if you told him no and he still bothered you. Yeah, I don't mind the occasional comment, sometimes it can be a compliment though the guy doesn't know how to express it nicely, but when they say anything about underwear or flashing them it's like "Kay, no."

 

yes. Next time just tell him your a man.

 

Not LEGALLY! It wasn't "On The Job". It was RUDE, YES. The bum was WRONG to just say it, but it wasn't illegal.

 

What I meant was women who claim to be feminists but really are not. You know the type..."We hate men. We hate women who are sexy."

 

I don't think I should have to give up the fact that I like my breasts and most of the men who have complimented me on them weren't assholes. I've even had women tell me that they wished their's looked like mine without having to go the implant route. I think it takes self-respect to be comfortable with your body.

Anyways, besides being an asshole this dude was a redneck...and not in a good way. Ugh.

 

Ok. If that wasn't actually legally harassment, what the hell would he have had to do to make it illegal?! It's jerks like this that make the nunnery appealing.

I have a very modest figure, and have always been very introverted and left alone by guys. But, about 11 or 12 years ago I had a guy smack my ass when I went past him. I was so shocked. All I could do was tell him I should kill him for that. So, to add insult to injury, a guy that I "thought" was my friend saw this and proceeded to make a belittling comment about my statement which only made me feel even more degraded. Some men are such ass holes. I am glad to say that I've met some since that aren't.

 

touching, i believe. just saying something isn't illegal, because you're capable of ignoring a statement, unless it was made in a particularly threatening way. but just some dickweed on the street shooting his mouth off may be wrong, rude, inconsiderate, and unbelievably stupid, but it's not illegal.

now, that would be illegal.

I was so shocked. All I could do was tell him I should kill him for that. So, to add insult to injury, a guy that I "thought" was my friend saw this and proceeded to make a belittling comment about my statement which only made me feel even more degraded.

who said that to you??? anyone i know? (i think i can guess.) you want me to kick his ass, or curse his willy? (stuffs voodoo doll & readies pins)

 

"Anyways, besides being an asshole this dude was a redneck...and not in a good way. Ugh."




Is there really a good way to be a redneck???? Sorry....that comment just struck me as funny......

~Peace~

 

You can certainly love your breasts and NOT have people harrassing you. I adore my body, but I don't want people asking to see portions of it. And neither I nor you owe them an explaination WHY not.

You should love your body, no matter what it looks like. And part of that love is knowing where appropriate boundries are. A womyn saying they wish they had breasts like yours is not the same as some stranger (man or womyn) asking to SEE them. You were harrassed, the legality isn't the issue, (unless he worked at the library, then he could and should lose his job immediately) respecting you as a person who is entitled to her privacy and SAFTEY is!

BTW, I know a lot of feminists. I know none who think "we hate men, we hate women who are sexy." Maybe do some investigation on just WHAT feminism is, before making comments about feminists.

 

my husband is a good ol' redneck. more of a country boy. i guess it depends on your definition. but dave's wonderful, hard-working, loving and kind, and yes, he loves to go see the car races. so yeah, there's a good way.

 

I think it's funny how she can lable him a redneck from seeing him once in her life. Lables suck. Yow would you like it if he went home and told his friends he saw a whore today just because he saw you once? ( I'm not saying your a whore) I am saying you can't lable people like that. Well you can but you shouldn't.

 

There’s harassment, and then there’s sexual harassment. A lot of my students have written research papers on this issue, and most seem surprised or even befuddled by the different rules, definitions, and procedures applied to these issues.

Harassment is a crime, defined differently in different jurisdictions, but usually it has to involve 1) offensive behavior, and 2) some element of pursuit or of repetition. Someone who makes nasty comments to you on the street (sexual or otherwise, often racial epithets are cited in court cases) is merely exercising their First Amendment right to free speech. But if they follow you down the street (the pursuit element) making nasty comments, they can be arrested for harassment. Or if they see you every day and make nasty comments they can be arrested (since it’s repeated). That’s usually what crank phone callers get in trouble for; if they call you once the cops wont’ usually do anything, but repeated calls earn a harassment charge.

Any unwanted physical contact, whether a slap on the ass or a pat on the back, is actual Assault, and anyone can be arrested for that. Legal students sometimes like to argue about things like handshakes; is that assault if it’s unwanted physical contact? To my knowledge, no court has ever convicted anyone of assault for an unwanted handshake, but there have been assault convictions for patting someone’s butt and suchlike. If the physical contact has an overt sexual element, like patting someone’s butt, then the charge could be Sexual Assault, which has stiffer penalties.

Sexual harassment is an entirely different beast, legally speaking. First, it’s not a crime, as most people understand crime, because no one’s ever arrested for it. It’s a violation of civil rights, under title IX of the Civil Rights act of 1970 (updated in the 1980’s, I believe in 1986). Legally, it means that someone engages in physically or verbally offensive behavior in a setting where the victim is unable to leave the environment without undue hardship. Courts have specifically said that sexual harassment can take place in the workplace or in a school, where the victim can not just leave if someone makes nasty comments, without losing their job or suffering a loss to their education and grades.

Different courts have said different things about where sexual harassment can take place and where it can’t. One court case in Chicago in the early 1990’s said that construction workers who made catcalls at passing women were not violating their rights, since the women were free to walk on by without losing their jobs or suffering a loss in their education. But in a similar case two years later a woman claimed that she had to walk past a construction site to get to her job, and the court found in her favor and fined the construction company involved.

In one case in New York a woman claimed to have been sexually harassed by another patron while in a bar, and the court threw the case out, saying that she could have left the bar with no undue hardship. But in a California case a patient in a hospital waiting room claimed to have been harassed by another patient, and the court found in her favor, since she couldn’t just leave without missing her appointment.

As in the setting where it can take place, there’s a lot of uncertainty about what behavior constitutes harassment. Staring or winking will usually not get a sexual harassment conviction, but an openly suggestive comment about someone’s boobs or butt will. The law is deliberately vague on this point, and lawyers have a fine time and make a lot of money arguing about what is "reasonably acceptable behavior" or not.

If someone claims sexual harassment they don’t charge the person doing the harassing, but the entity (the employer or school) that allowed the situation to occur. The court may, if it finds harassment took place, then fine the entity involved. The fines are decided by the jury based on the individual circumstances of the case, and they can vary hugely. In one Michigan case in 1995 a woman whose co-workers made sexual comments to her received $300,000, while that same year a man whose co-workers also made sexual comments sued and won only $100.

The harasser would probably lose his or her job, or be suspended from school, but no one ever goes to jail for sexual harassment (unless the harassment was physical in nature, in which case they go to jail for assault, or sexual assault, or rape, or whatever). There’s been some talk among legal experts that this should be changed, that the actual harasser should have to pay the fine, instead of the agency responsible for maintaining a safe, comfortable environment. There have been cases of a person suing a harasser (most notably Paula Jones suing Bill Clinton) but those are civil suits for damages done, not criminal cases. If Jones had won, Clinton would have been fined, just like someone you might sue for damages after a car accident, but he wouldn’t have gone to jail.

Vinceneilsgirl, If you were just walking down the street and someone made a comment, you can’t claim they harassed you, because you could just keep walking. But if they follow you and continue making such comments, then you can have them arrested for simple harassment. And if the comments come in a setting where you can’t readily leave, like work or school, then you can sue the company or school for allowing the harassment to take place, and perhaps sue the harasser himself for damages.
Hope that clarifies things a bit….

ProfRob

P.S. Some eager beaver is sure to question my data, so I’ll go ahead and say that my info comes from:

1. Student research papers (which I don’t normally keep, so can’t give bibliographic details), and
2. The sexual harassment section of one of my recent textbooks, THE INFORMED ARGUMENT by Robert K. Miller. (This text reproduces articles from magazines and newspapers on a variety of controversial topics; the 5th edition includes a good selection on sexual harassment. The 6th edition, which just came out in January, unfortunately dropped that section.)

 

Actually, I consider women who claim that they hate men and who attack women who choose to use their sexuality to their advantage to NOT be feminists. I know what feminism is...I've taken more than my share of sociology and history courses to know that.

To me feminism is about choice. For example, if you want to act in porn that should be your choice. However, on the E! True Hollywood Story about Jena Jameson they were talking to a woman (who claimed to be a feminist) who insisted that Jena and all women in porn are forced to go into it...even after Jena insisted 5,000,000 times that it was her choice. I don't consider women who attack the choices of other women to be feminists. What especially bothered me was that this person had a hard time admitting that women do go into porn by choice. It's pretty obvious that Jena likes her job. Should she have to give it up just because someone doesn't like her choice? No.

Back to my problem...you're right that there's a difference between compliments and harrassment. And LOL about the idea of him working at the library!