I agree in principle but I also know that any legislated solution can and probably will evolve into the draconian heavy hand of big government. I do not want to see the jack-booted egalitarian procreation police kicking down the doors of maternity wards and nurseries. As an example I watched some law inforcement guys raid a house of prostitution in full baclava, sub-machine gun gestapo police gear. Good lord, what was these girls going to do that warrented that kind of show of force. We have become desensitized to the excesses of what our police/government bodies have become and that evolution to police state is far from over. How many times do I have to watch some poor schmuck being thrown face first to the asphalt by an over zealous cop that only screams "get down" after the jaywalker has been bruised and skinned up by his impact on the pavement? Find a way to change the hearts of people without criminilizing everything. Get people to accept the goals that you mention without the heavy hand of government. Remember every "War on..." is ultimately a war on people.
reducing population growth could easily be accomplished by offering free or very cheap drugs to people in large people producing nations with the agreement that these drugs (for whatever malady, aids, malaria, west nile, ect ect) also contain drugs which severly limit fertility in men, by reducing sperm count. also aids could be stemmed partially by administering a drug to patients to reduce their sex drive and thus likelyhood of passing it on. edit- i don't know if i could ever support such an initiative, being human myself, but if i was some sort of objective overseer with no emotion or compasion, thats what i would do to remedy the problem
eh, I'm not saying they are animals. I'm just pointing out the fact that poverty seems to be related to the birthrates of an area. read the bit near the bottom about overpopulation http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761577020/Poverty.html look at and compare both maps http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/aencmed/targets/maps/map/T620076A.gif http://www.dokus.com/PapersontheWeb/figure06.jpg
Don't believe in this overpopulation bullshit.The elite want 80% of the population killed off...They started the genocide years ago with their man made diseases/viruses,abortion, & war.
we are far from overpopulation, In normal world, IN shitty uncivilized world , there always been wars, viruses diseases and all kinds of crap. so relax.as logn as you live somwhere in N/A. or europe
your use of the word "normal" in this context makes no sense what so ever. also i really have to question what deffinician you're using FOR "overpopulation". i've stated the one i'm using. certainly much higher levels of population then we are used to in the few remaining relatively sprarcely populated parts of the planet like canada and still a few parts of the u.s.; europe and even moreso japan, seem to get alone with much higher population densities on average over all. but that's not the question really at all. what is possible is one thing. what is DESIRABLE and healthy, especialy mentaly healthy, is another question entirely. what is DESIRABLE about crowding out every other animate life form, and potentialy undermining nature's cycles of renewal by doing so? =^^= .../\...
Well and true. However look at some other things that have happened on the planet in the last hundred years. Wars break out in record number and people from all over the planet are enlisted to take a side. The ones who don't participate (so-called neutral places like Switzerland) are countries where birthrates are low to begin with. Some homosexuals are learning at an early age that there is no longer a need to get married and/or have children if that is NOT what the person wants to do. Folks are still dying of AIDS and other opportunistic viruses. Personally I think one of the most effective ways of cutting down the population would be to provide free condoms to teenagers and to make abortions legal, safe and available.
Themnax, I respect what you write and like all that you say so understand I am not dogging you on this. The area where I live is artfully carved up in to square mile sections. I lived for three years in a house that was the only house on the entire mile section. Many sections have no houses at all. I lived for 17 years on a section with 10 other houses that were ALL on the edge of the same road. The entire remainder of the next three sections had no homes or people at all. There are streams here, forsests, fields and a lot of wide open spaces here. Also , this is the populous part of the state...the western half is to a great degree devoid of people entirely. That is the common situation for the center and western portion of this continent. I do not want to see wall to wall people here...i like it sparse and open but the point is that this is the rule in this country not the exception. The vast majority of Americans live next to the coasts and in the eastern quarter of the US...you get out here in the fly over states and it is open. I guess what i am saying is...the feeling of over population is driven in large part by your immediate surroundings. I know what it is like "out east" and in California as well. Don't like it and wouldn't have it but those who live there choose to live there.
themax- so you think it is not normal ??? what do you think it was 100 .150.200. and so on years ago ? the same.. population grew... people had to migrate to otehr places to start cities to live.... wars existed even in harsher and more uncivilized manner.... diseases as usual... technology very poor..... and IT is normal world because we UNDERSTAND that.. because we are normal people , and we had built civilized countries like USA, Canada, ... also europe... those who still live like animals with the help of technology produced by "normal" people.. they live by the rules of "GOD" which is very stupid and that is why they are stupid... they constantly fight... hate for some fuckign stupid reasons like muslims and jews.... books says that.. so let it be .... but we are who are lucky to live in this society are normal and understand many valeus of life and beauty of it.... and we will more in future... even with big overpopulation life is possible BUT in civilzied and normal country run by normal peopel. If not .. you see what happens....
i see what happens because people keep denying the connection between priorities and probabilities. precisely what using an arbitrary presumptions of so called normality is and is doing. i'm not doubting the existence of something big, friendly and nontangable, but show me where this so called god of yours has more to do with what anyone, yourself included, experiences in everyday life, then the connection between priorities and probabilities. no, the use of belief to evade personal responsibility for the NATURAL consiquences of our priorities has not given us any such thing as a "normal" civilization. only for a time a means of deceiving ourselves into immagining we had one. and this can be observed by anyone who'se head isn't lost in the clouds of fanaticism of one sort or another. =^^= .../\...
ehh.... what do you think/wish/want... world to eb a paradise ? earthly peace, no lack of food, no lack of anything, pure harmony ? maybe because u r old man and think that this life is "dirty" and is not normal.. and it could been pure paradise.... ofcourse not.. different culture,races, mentalities, always reacted oopositively... liek coulds before lightining. and again THIS IS the best world yet.... for at least some people, lots of opportunities and of course its bad things.. but with less bad things than before. and we were some middle east people that were in the middle of this"mess" .. too bad of course world is bullshit for us.. but we are lucky enough to ahve internet and these good lives. Our government fights for our countries as every does. waht about GOd i did not say anythign about my god, i dont believe in God , simply because it s not ture and there are thousands facts that dissprove it. But those "stupid" people because of lack of information, and their holy book in front of them since 4 years old , can not physically adn mentally see the difference and truth... some of course because they are humans with brains after all understand that but those are only seeds....
There will come a time when our country will be nothing but coast to coast housing developments if we don't get active on this issue now. Overpopulation is the most pressing issue our society faces today.
Sprawling on the fringes of the city In geometric order, An insulated border In between the bright lights And the far unlit unknown
200 years is not such a long time. nor even 2,000. not in relation to people who have been learning from the land how to live on it for 10,000 years! but normality, the problem with the pretentions of such a concept is precisely that the nature of reality is diversity, which laughs at the attempts of tyrannts to narrow it. the forrest is sacred and it is a sadness to see so much callus indifference to this real heart of the spirit. environmentaly harmonious sustainable tecnologies are not only possible but exist and are proven. returning human population to a sane level requires no draconian measures, merely a lowering of birthrate in an unbiased manor to a sufficient degree and for a sufficient time for this to be accomplished. indeed no draconian measure can attain this in a desirable and sustainable manor. =^^= .../\...
Well said. That's all you need to solve the problem. I wouldn't ask for anything more, or anything less.
If we don't find a solution to overpopulation, nature will find a way and mother nature can really be a bitch sometimes....i.e... Worldwide Pandemics, Plagues, or the spontaneous emergence of a disease which only attacks newborns ...etc,...:nopity: Hotwater
Have any of you thought that maybe there is no solution? That 6-11 billion is only temporary and that eventually we have to go back to a sustainable 50-200 million? What about Gaia philosphy? Maybe (and i'm going out on a limb here) Earth natuarally evolved (or allowed to evolve or whatever) a lifeform such as ours (high energy consumers) to create a climate change. If Peak is going to happen soon (which i beleive it is and which will happen someday anyway) then there is no possible way to sustain the human population at even it's current level. Maybe this is the high point of population, but not the begining of the end. Maybe the 50-200 million people who are living in the arctic 300 years from now will see this as only a turning point and not necessarily a bad one (except for the billions who died/will die). Maybe massive dieoff is inevitable for all species. Maybe (if we avoid extinction) it could be the best thing to happen to the human race and to the long term health of the planet? just a thought...
