Another school shooting, and once again warning sign ignored

I bring this up in Politics forum for a reason.
This shooting (the second school shooting in a week) is going to have consequences. Parental groups are going to blame guns, music, teasing, lack of security, violent video games, rough home life and a host of other reasons why the kid was able to bring 2 guns to school and shoot his principal.

Before any of that happens and new restrictions are made, i wanted to point out that, yet again, the signs were all there and nobody was listening...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/29/wisc.shooting.ap/index.html

If these aren't cries for help i don't know what is...

 

he threw a stapler at a teacher and a chair at the principal. and he wasnt expelled why?

 

well unless we want to go as far as we do in airports in not being allowed to say certain things, i don't think we can acost every student who says something violent about somebody else... i mean really how do we know who's kidding and who isn't? the first two of your quotes could have been said been any number of super pissed off teenagers. anger management might have needed to happen after the chair and stapler incidents, and i too am surprised about the lack of expulsion, but the first two don't seem like HUGE warning signs to me. i guess it depends on the context of him saying it, how often he said it, and if he ever said he was kidding.

 

So what - this became headline news in Britain. Which is a great pity because on that day several people were killed in stabbings and shootings on our own doorstep. In countries where guns seem to be something like ornaments that people put in their houses you gotta wonder at the sanity putting this in the news at all.
What do people in the USA think? that they can have these things and no-one is gonna get hurt? ha ha ha - Its ludicruous it even made the news.
I think that its a pity that someone who stabs a person on the street is not hunted down by half a cities police force like these school shooters are. and a pity that the worlds press doesnt research to the nth degree every murederers background and pick apart why they did it. Doesnt it seem stupid that some kid gets his parents gun and kills someone should rank higher than a fucked up crackhead that kills someone for dope money? Its the stupid parents fault for buying into the paranoid gun culture they tsay " ohhh well its a hostile environment in this city" You just have to think "yes, you assholes its because paranoid jerks like you buy guns that its all hostile"
You have to wonder at the sanity of people for buying into the gun culture.


This dog looks like he's trying to force out a poo

 

I hate to start paraphrasing bits of a Michael Moore movie here, but I think school shootings are a sign of a larger problem. Something is not right with our children. Maybe it's the video games, maybe it's the movies. Maybe it's our model administration and their quest to "spread freedom". Maybe it's the fact that we've trained this coming generation away from self education and aesthetic and more towards personal advancement and materialism. Maybe it's a change in the basic facets of parenting. Maybe it's higher divorce rate.....

We can blame everything and anything as a contributing factor to this insanity. Personally, I don't think that we can take a republican / short attention span approach to this problem; more security and more rules are not going to change what's going on in the kids' minds. We seem to have forgotten in this country, that laws can only go so far - and laws will not change the people themselves.

We need to fund, improve, and broaden our national education, art, and public works. This isn't a solution that will fix the problem within most politicians' electoral term - but it will fix the problem. I'd love somebody to go out there into the political arena with the balls to think 20 - 25+ years into the future... far past their own term and perhaps their own career.

We wonder why a child in this country can become so estranged from a healthy life.... My question is, "what have we as region, or perhaps as a nation, given the child to occupy him/herself with?" Idle hands do the devils work... and apparently in CO, they've got some serious time on their hands. Beware when the conch falls into Jack's hands.......

 

Expelling students does not solve any problems.

Three weeks ago now, a 25 year old gunman entered a 16-18 year olds' school in Montreal and fired his semi-automatic weapons into busy hallways and atriums.

I do not believe that expelling a troubled student does anything but negate the problems of the child.

 

Another shooting today in Amish country.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/02/amish.shooting/index.html

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Yea, I was jus treading that shit. Wow, schools are getting crazier every day!

 

What if that kid was expelled for raping or attempting to rape a classmate? It sure solves the comfortability factor for the victim. He/she won't have to endure the presence of their attacker while they are in school trying to learn.

Here's a story for you. When I was 13, a boy in my grade cornered me in the bustop and proceeded to shove his hands under my shirt and down my pants. I tried to fight him off and continued to scream but he was much bigger than me. There were other kids at the busstop but claimed later in written statements that they were unaware of how bad it was because they couldn't see what was happening but one of them did state that he heard me say "get your hands out of my pants."

Despite all the written witness statements and a confession from the boy that he roughed me up, the school only suspended him for one week. And the school refused to cooperate with the police in helping charge this kid, so he also managed to evade the law. One week later he was back in classes with me and I even had a teacher that refused to move his seat from next to me because it would "mess up her seating chart". I had to endure his notes and comments for the rest of the year and for the entire freshman year of high school. I was allowed little escape from my trauma while simply trying to survive two of the most dramatic years of school for kids.

He has since landed himself a 25-life sentence for multiple counts of rape.

Expulsion may not always be the answer but sometimes certain students need to be removed from the school setting.

 

It seems obvious to an outsider that your culture is running around arguing with itself about gun laws and that nothing is being done. This is having an impact on people thousands of miles away - your culture produces violent lyrics to songs (gangster rap) which have now infiltrated into currency in other cultures - In britain, and this is no BS, whenever we see something about the culture of the USA there is ALWAYS something violent about it. If all anyone could know about that culture came through the TV or Cinema they would be forced to conclude that the citizens of the USA had an uncivilised lack of respect for each other and anyonelse. Your whole culture screams violence !
Now doesnt it seem stupid that people who argue for the right to carry guns are allowed to do so. Since when did someone ever own a gun without the thought they might have to use it? Also in Britain, until the 1980's no police oficer was armed, why?
Well because they werent armed the criminals never armed themselves and citizens never felt the need to arm against criminals.
What need is there of a gun in a city? You arent going to hunt bear or deer with it in a city are you? Disarm your culture and you will have a more sane and safer society.
Its only now we are getting stupid kids with guns cuz they listen to the shite coming from US. gangster rap, and UKgarage and these 15 year olds think its impressive for their gang to have a few guns.
Basically you should disarm and sensor what kids can listen to that passes for culture

 

Censorship is never a solution because it requires a body (usually acting in the interest of large scale politics) to say what goes and what stays. The great art in this world would not have come to bear if it was not "leaked out" at a certain time. Is all gangsta rap and UKgarage art? Probably not, but you can't throw away whole genres of music as "trash". That's just ignorant. Strange that one would argue for censorship on a "free speech" forum like this one. If there's one strength left in the American culture, it is our art - our expression. Censoring that will only make matters worse.

Kids are rebellious by nature - it is healthy and a part of growing up. While I am in total agreement with you that we should remove the guns from this country, that action is only a partial solution. As you say, our culture screams violence, and our children are exhibiting that fact. So, that fact needs to change as much as the gun laws. Our dorkier yet smarter neighbors to the north, the Canadians, statistically own more guns than the US. Yet, their gun related deaths are far fewer. That can only be explained by a cultural difference.

Americans are more in need of a change of heart and mindset rather than a change of laws.

 

Good heavens dear. I never meant that troubled kids should never be expelled. For the safety of other children, I understand fully that a school setting cannot always provide the necessary supervision for children with sexual outburst and inappropriateness, pyro tendencies, sexual behaviour problems, psychosis, and all sorts of troubled and disturbing conditions. I was just stating the fact that the problem does not simply go away after a child has been expelled.

There are placement and group house where children can receive medical attention and counselling for these issues. At my high school, there were corridors that were closed off from the other students, and that is were such troubled students would study in classrooms and could be supervised by professionals and lived together in group homes nearby the school.

I have a tremendous amount of personal faith that these types of programs have benefit and usefulness to the community at large.

I'm so sorry to have provoked you to tell your own personal story like that - But I guess that I myself would like to see a balance in the way that we treat disturbed children without totally isolating them or on the flip side, ignoring their very apparent condition altogether.

Dear, I really did not mean to upset you on a personal level. I just want to see that these children get better, and do not hurt the very same kind of totally innocent people that have been, such as yourself.

So thank you, and I take my statement back.

Expelling students can indeed solve a major part of the problem.

 

This would have not been a problem if the media wouldn't have made it into one. School shootings only became popular (on some degree) after the media gave events such as Columbine so much hype. The US is a very large country, and the amount of school's in which shootings occur probebly count for 0.0001% (imaginary figuere, ofcourse... but you see my drift) of schools in this country. This is a problem that must be dealt with on a very local level... not national.

 

now, granted alot of our culture is violent, but so is yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wob3r1Leamw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YccRUc2SDBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ9Sfp-_Xps
typical english arrogance. you see the speck in my eye but are blind to the plank in your own. but of course you'll try to blame soccer hooligans, fox hunting and englands long history of oppression and domination of its celtic neighbors on americans somehow. i think the opposite is true, american culture got its violent start from the english example. youll notice also that the first two dont involve guns. americans are quick to the gun because well, we grew up with them if you will. violent culture is violent culture, and the presence of a large number of fire arms just makes us look more violent. that and 50 cent