what is to become of the jamband scene

Discussion in 'Grateful Dead and Phish' started by JoneeEarthquake, Oct 2, 2006.

Page 1 of 2
  1. JoneeEarthquake

    JoneeEarthquake Member

    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    2
    will this scene dissipate without large venue acts like the dead or phish? or will it still thrive? maybe become more diverse? i love jams more than anything.
     
    JoneeEarthquake, Oct 2, 2006
    #1
  3. GratefulFloyd

    GratefulFloyd Nowhere to fly to

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    1
    It will probably just become a lot less popular. I'm sure that it will exist... Gov't mule has a pretty steady fanbase, as do many others, but sadly I don't think it will ever be the same.

    But hell, popularity doesn't make the music any better. As long as its not completely gone I'll still be able to enjoy it.
     
    GratefulFloyd, Oct 2, 2006
    #2
  5. napolean inrags95

    napolean inrags95 Member

    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    0
    cheese and widespread panic both play their share of large venues. maybe not stadiums, but mostly bigger ampitheaters and concert halls in my area at least.. and who cares whats popular, we will hold the scene down and keep it real as long as we stay real and devoted to our music.
     
    napolean inrags95, Oct 2, 2006
    #3
  7. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    there will always be a jam scene... its gonna be around forever.. what do you mean by large venue acts? are you trying to say that Bonnaroo.. 100,000+ people is not a big enough "venue" for you? or ever smaller scale 10,000Lakes Festival which was 18,000+ people not big enough? jam is alive and well my friend
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 3, 2006
    #4
  9. SLammon420

    SLammon420 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the jam scene will be around, going through different degrees of popularity over the years. i'll always be loyal to it and i hope to add my own music to it one of these days.
     
    SLammon420, Oct 3, 2006
    #5
  11. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,776
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    joker, there is a difference between a stadium show and a fest, don't you think?

    I tend to drfit away when scenes start to get really big, I like small scenes and supporting the newer kids on the road ( that's why I started the weekly discoveries thread, 'cause we all know the best band in our area) But I do catch Red Rocks shows (I can see it from the road a block from here) and some Fillmore Denver shows. To me that's a big venue.

    but the scene really lives in these pockets. Sure, it's great when someone breaks through and can lure more people into jambands (like Jonesearthquake's comments in a different thread about his six Phish shows), but it is about family, and the strongest family is there, GROWING along with the band.

    I used to tease my friends about Life after Dead (by taking them to see WSP with 3997 other people, again, to me a big show) and it sems some jokster type needs to do that for the post phish kids.

    People worth hearing:
    New Monsoon-- lots of early Cheese heart vibe and damn good musicians, to boot
    Zilla -- Mike Travis' side gig. techno, but give them a shot anyway.
    Honkytonk Homeslice- Billy Nershi's side project with his lovely and talented lady, Jillian.
    KanNal- tribal trance.
    Fareed Haque Group/ Garaj Mahal-- is there a better guitarist out there? Maybe...
    Steve Kimock-- in whatever incarnation he's in this week. ;)
    Swing set-- Dave J from YMSB, old time for the young 'uns
    Papa Mali- bluesy
    Dub Conscious- speaking truth to power reggae style
     
    drumminmama, Oct 4, 2006
    #6
  13. coventry

    coventry Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    There will always be a jamband scene, guys, as long as there's decent jazz being played.
     
    coventry, Oct 5, 2006
    #7
  15. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    wow.. for being from colorado i thought for sure you would list Green Lemon.. those guys are fuckin nuts!! i love'em... seen New Monsoon before.. they've played in my hometown a few times... they're good shit as well...

    yea.. i suppose a venue is different than a festival... but does the amount of jambands playing venues really show how well a scene is? while new festivals are popping up every year? i personally am not a fan of large venues... i want to see my music in the great wide open or in the neighborhood hole in the wall
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 5, 2006
    #8
  17. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,776
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    Green Lemon is playing most Monday nights and I'm a journo with no extra time on that night! Have yet to see them.
    I was hoping they would be at Nedfest, but no.
     
    drumminmama, Oct 5, 2006
    #9
  19. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    oh wow... you havent even seen them yet??? damn you're missing probably the next big thing outta colorado.. they're absolutely amazing
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 5, 2006
    #10
  21. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,776
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    nope...Kan'Nal is the next big thing out of Colorado!

    but I will get to them.
    I say a concert versus a fest is a different animal.
    You are NOT going to get a 24 minute Severe Tire Damage (Kimock) at a fest.
    You will get exposed to six new bands you never bothered to hear, and possibly get taken by them.
    My own OMG list from fests includes Hamsa Lila, The Slip, STS9, Signal Path, Franti, New Monsoon (I'd seen them but it hadn't clicked), Don Conoscenti, Emily Kaitz

    Festivals are a different breed, more like a fair or circus, with a lot more of the social community element needed for the non-music parts of the night.

    Then there are the two-three band weekend warrior getaways such as runs at the late lamented Horning's Hideout.

    so the jam scene is trying to evolve to the financial constraints required of it.
    Take a LOT of gasoline and veggie grease to continually play 300+ nights a year.
     
    drumminmama, Oct 6, 2006
    #11
  23. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    yea.. i totally understand.. and agree that festies and venues are two different worlds... but do you need to check the pulse of how well the jam scene is by how many stadium shows there are? i dont believe so
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 6, 2006
    #12
  25. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,776
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    LoL there ARE no stadiums, only a few arena shows and for most bands being of that size is regional (I'm thinking of Panic in particular).
    I'd say the area is a sign of too much, y'know? Let alone the stadium.
    too much "tourist level" that doesn't give back, among other things.
    Do I want these bands to do well? Yes. I have only trashed on one marketing gambit: the hoop stickers for ped xing signs (the clear ring only stickers) because Mad House didn't take responsibility for them when they created problems.
    Heck, I love working merch.
    Do I want to see my friends get caught in a machine that will not allow them to change as their hearts need to? Nope.
    That's why I support small scenes. It's a nutruring environmant that breeds cameraderie in a way that a stadium never could.
    If 200 people are hitting the same 20 regional shows, you will meet almost every one. The painfully shy will meet fewer, but still get to know at least 70 people.


    That said, 80K people in the same mindset without two dozen fat men chasing a dead pigs skin is somethimg to behold.
     
    drumminmama, Oct 7, 2006
    #13
  27. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    yea.. i still dont understand the panic hype.. i've tried listening to them a few times and its like "why the fuck are these guys so big?" same goes for SCI... as Matt from White Iron Band(check these guys out.. absolutely amazing outlaw country) screamed at 10k during their set while SCI played the main stage "FUCK STRING CHEESE"

    i totally agree with you on the smaller shows.. like i said.. i'm a fan of hole in the wall shows and small heady festivals.. biggest festi i will continue to make it to will probably be 10k.. hopefully i can get out to Tulliride(sp? i know its wrong sorry) next year... think i'm gonna go beyond the midwest scene next summer if i can get the money saved... but yea.. every festival i see alot of the same friendly faces.. and its great.. and theres always a nice wave of new people too.. which is nice to see as well.. also with smaller festies you dont seem to get alot of the "weekenders" ya know the kiddies just comin to get their hands on whatever they can pop

    about these guys Kan'Nal.. i havent heard of them... how big are they? i wonder if they'll ever come play in my lil town... we get alot of different bands from Colorado to play here in Winona, MN(27,000)... Victor Barnes, Green Lemon, The Last Bus.. just to name a few
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 7, 2006
    #14
  29. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    oh.. i almost forgot Vince Herman played in town as well
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 7, 2006
    #15
  31. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,776
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    well KanNal played 10 K last year, I believe (05) www.kannal.org

    SCI is where I developed a LOT of my considerations about show size.
    Then again my ONLY phish show was in 3000 people in 95. Liked a lot of what I saw, but there was a darkness creeping in. Panic was balls to the wall about being swampy dark vibe.
    I'm also a huge JJ Cale fan, so I guess I sort of get that vibe.
    I liked Panic well enough the double handful of times I saw them, got swept away a couple times (chasing the vibe) but I had a huge problem with the white hat "know where I can get some pills?"/ getting puked on part.
    I was considering giving them another chance, at least at Red Rocks, when Mikey was no more.
    He'd been the only member I clicked with, although no one was rude. He had a quiet, pained soul the times we talked.
    I bear the group nothing but good hopes, but I don't have a connect to the music so much as to go through the crowd.

    Now, back to Cheese. I'm part of the first out of Colorado fanbase (I was living in Oklahoma), so I remember the first version Wake Up (far better), Kang with long hair (see my gallery), the boys with no kids.... and we also did business with them as the first backdrops that were not Austin Shaw's batiks. We made three stage sets, one in conjunction with Michael Everett. We knew Keller from the first tour as well. He was still a wookie looking butterball, and had a subset of HIS fans on the tour (still in the blazingbago or a van at that point). That was quite cool to see.
    So the point of placing us within band history is to show you where we are coming from. We knew a jamjazzgrass band, not a techno band. The band carried hoops. I was taught to hoop by Billy's daughter (on her demand since her babysitter got too high at set break, same show as the Kang pic. I earned my hoopercrossing!) I perfected it on JonO's hoop, which came to my eyebrows!
    this was family we were seeking with the musical spirit that we needed.
    We had a few great years, almost made the Negril incident.

    then Phish went on hiatus.
    Like Phish's own burst of growth as the GD were winding down and then the explosion after Jerry died, Phish's hiatus fed a large, ready-made fanbase into a band that was playing 3000 seat halls on good nights. (this is post Gov't Cheese tour)
    these fans, this loosely associated scene, had it's own ways and means, and swamped the oldtimers who either were not into Phish, or would choose Cheese over Phish in a conflicting date.
    they had certain demand of the music, and it was a time that the younger element could experiment.
    But not all members liked this new techno-esqe dircetion as a main direction (look at the side projects: who does electronica and who does bluegrass?)
    But it sold, and management encouraged more of it as new songs were crafted.

    SCI got the foundation laid as a different band.
    Why are they so big?
    we were rabid promoters in the small days. Leftover Salmon gave them great props and got them in good festsies. (they did the same for YMSB). In fact the IncidentaList grew from the LoS netspace, and YMSB grew from SCI's!
    Loyalty, too. Lots of originals are still there. The heart is too, just in a different way.
    and no doubt, these are talented musicians who live for it.
    I'll take a Billy tune anyday, but Kang on Jean Luc Pont's Mauna Bowa (my old fave hooping piece) is still a wonder.
     
    drumminmama, Oct 8, 2006
    #16
  33. jo_k_er_man

    jo_k_er_man TBD

    Messages:
    23,622
    Likes Received:
    91
    yea.. i heard WSP really has a bad crowd that rolls with them... people that i talked to about 10k's past said when WSP played 10k it was a really dirty site... you really couldnt walk through one of the campgrounds barefoot because you would find needles all over the ground...

    yea lots of jam these days really depend on early hometown fans... i think.. i guess look at Big Wu as another one of those bands that you always here the question "why are these guys so hyped?".. well im a minnesota boy and i've been following big wu since they were a GD cover band... and have watch and heard them grow.. sometimes ya dont get the opportunity to watch bands grow.. you just get to see them in their peak... and also in their slowing down stage... which i believe Big Wu is in...

    its interesting how SCI has now gone to that like 2nd set techno.. i dont like it myself... but in todays age.. you gotta keep figuring out how to bring new fans to the shows by switching up your style of music.. dont get me wrong.. i dont mind SCI... they are talented.. i just dont see the hype.. but like i said earlier.. i havent watch them grow over time
     
    jo_k_er_man, Oct 8, 2006
    #17
  35. solla._.sollew

    solla._.sollew Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    0
    SCI made it big because they kick ass. lets give credit where credits do. they worked hard, wrote good tunes and toured their ass off. money is part of the music business. making money, making music is awesome. i love it. if i couldn't make money of music i'd be dead, cause i have no other talent. and its paying off. its not selling out. its making a living. but, if you tour with a giant coca-cola sponosor banner and play songs on the show ''celebrity duets" is another story......tour and live.
     
    solla._.sollew, Oct 8, 2006
    #18
  37. HappyDrivin

    HappyDrivin Member

    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    i've been to quite a few panic shows, and i've never ever ever seen needles on the ground...but, people have their assumptions...i usually assume that phish's crowd are coked up/pill heads...but it's really just those few people that are like that that make that "band" look bad...i dont particularly care for Phish, but they are good musicians, and i've got best friends who LOVE them...so, i just don't think it's fair to make assumtions about Panic having a 'bad crowd' just cuz of a friend of a friend of a friend said they saw needles lying around...and obviously, panic wasn't the only band there... they could have been from any fan of any band...
     
    HappyDrivin, Oct 11, 2006
    #19
  39. Illmaeo

    Illmaeo Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never understood the draw for WSP. they seem a little generic to me. SCI on the other fan, I fucking love. I've been listening to them for quite a few years but never got around to seeing them live until this past summer at Red Rocks with Ratdog and Keller. They blew me away. And I loved their trance as well. I really dig that they can play straight-up down-home bluegrass and turn around and play trance five minutes later. Cheese is a supergroup! Everyone of them could have their own band, and most of them do.

    The Jam band scene won't die as long as there are jam bands. If it goes through slimmer times, that means there are less tourists and hangers-on and more road kids and "hardcore" fans in the audience. I prefer it actually. I won't go to the big festies because they're too expensive and too damn crowded. But a weekend at Red Rocks with Cheese Keller and Bob Weir is fucking sweet.
     
    Illmaeo, Oct 12, 2006
    #20
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Accept Learn More...
    Dismiss Notice