Neo-Fascism, The Third Position, topolm

Shane99X · Oct 9, 2006

topolm, you're familiar with this brand of neo-fascism aren't you?

Although this particular article refers to racial supremacists, the groups in question now refer to themselves as racial seperatists and (at least on the outside) call for voluntary segregation of the various races "back to their homelands"...

The U.S. Extreme Right shares three ideological affinities with some Islamic clerical fascist movements such as the Taliban and the al Qaeda networks, and some Black nationalist groups:
A hatred of Jews who are seen in the traditional antisemitic caricature of running the world through secret conspiracies.
A hatred of the U.S. government, seen as not just a global bully but also controlled by Jews. U.S. neonazis sometimes refer the administration in Washington, D.C. as the Zionist Occupational Government--ZOG.
A desire to overthrow existing governments and replace then with monocultural nation states built around the idea of supremacist racial nationalism or supremacist religious nationalism or both mixed together. This ethnonationalist philosophy is sometimes called the "Third Position."

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What is the Third Position?

Today there is a new form of fascism, a neofascism, called the Third Position, which seeks to overthrow existing governments and replace them with monocultural nation states built around the idea of supremacist racial nationalism and/or supremacist religious nationalism. Third Position neofascists have organized in the U.S., Europe, and the Middle East, and they maintain some kind of loose network, at least for the purposes of discussing their shared ideas and agenda, but in some cases involving meetings and even funding.

For instance Libyan president of Mu'ammar Qadhafi has sponsored several international conferences in Libya promoting his special variation of racial nationalism and cultivating ideas congruent with Third Position ideology. Qadhafi has also offered funds to racial nationalist groups active in the U.S. and Canada.2 During the Gulf War, according to the Searchlight magazine, "Neo-nazis is several European countries have been queuing up to shoulder arms for Saddam Hussein's murderous Iraqi Regime."3 One organizer for this attempted neonazi brigade, claimed he had over 500 volunteers from "several countries, including Germany, the USA, the Netherlands, Austria and France."4 Revealing the Third Position motif, a racial nationalist journal, Nation und Europa, promoted the slogans "Arabia for the Arabs," and "the whole of Germany for the Germans."5 In Britain, some neofascists praised the regimes in Libya and Iran as allies in the fight against communism, capitalism, and Israel.6

The Third Position has a more intellectual aristocratic ally called the European New Right (Nouvelle Droit) which is different from the U.S. New Right.7 Intellectual leaders of the European New Right, such as Alain de Benoist, are hailed as profound thinkers in U.S. reactionary publications such as the Rockford Institute's Chronicles. The more overtly neo-Nazi segment of the Third Position has intellectual links to the Strasserite wing of German national socialism, and is critical of Hitler's brand of Nazism for having betrayed the working class. See magazines such as Scorpion or Third Way published in England. Third Position groups believe in a racially-homogeneous decentralized tribal form of nationalism, and claim to have evolved an ideology "beyond communism and capitalism."

White supremacist leader Tom Metzger promotes Third Position politics in his newspaper WAR which stands for White Aryan Resistance. In Europe, the Third Position defines its racial-nationalist theories in publications such as Third Way and The Scorpion. Third Position adherents actively seek to recruit from the left. One such group is the American Front in Portland, Oregon, which ran a phone hotline that in late November, 1991 featured an attack on critics of left/right coalitions. Some Third Position themes have surfaced in the ecology movement and other movements championed by progressives.8

While the Third Position is an obscure ideology, there have been published reports that have reported on it. An excellent discussion of the emergence of the Third Position and the revivial of a national socialist/Strasserite version of intrernational fascism can be found in Kevin Coogan's 1999 book, Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International and in Martin A. Lee's 1997 book, The Beast Reawakens. The convergence among racial nationalists in North America and Western and Eastern Europe is discussed at length in Jeffrey Kaplan and Tore Bjørgo, eds., Nation and Race, and Jeffrey Kaplan and Leonard Weinberg, The Emergence of a Euro-American Radical Right.9 There is a theoretical discussion of the European Third Position and racially separate nation-states by Robert Antonio in "After Postmodernism: Reactionary Tribalism.10 The anti-U.S. aspect of the Third Position is examined in "´Neither Left Nor Right´" in the Southern Poverty Law Center magazine, Intelligence Report.11

I argue elsewhere that a good case can be made that the religious ideology of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban is a form of clerical fascism or some close hybrid. It certainly is a form of religious nationalism. This could help explain the potential for links between Islamic religious supremacists and U.S. White racial supremacists. The White racial supremacists we are discussing are part of the U.S. Extreme Right, not the Patriot or armed militia movements or the Christian Right. This is purely a speculative exercise, however, based on ideological affinities. A similar argument that places the Islamic supremacists in the context of apocalyptic revolutionary millenarianism makes the same point, since most U.S. neofascists can be placed in the same category. See: The `Religion' of Usamah bin Ladin: Terror As the Hand of God, by Jean E. Rosenfeld, Ph.D., UCLA Center for the Study of Religion.

In Right-Wing Populism in America Matthew N. Lyons and I discussed the Third Position: To varying degrees, some neofascists also shifted away from traditional fascism's highly centralized approach to political power and toward plans to fragment and subdivide political authority. Many neonazis called for creation of an independent White homeland in the Pacific Northwest, based on the ethnic partitioning of the United States. Posse Comitatus, mostly active in rural areas, repudiated all government authority above the county level. And in the 1990s neonazi leader Louis Beam promoted the influential doctrine of "leaderless resistance." While such decentralist policies may seem incompatible with full-blown fascism, we see them partly as defensive adaptations and partly as expressions of a new social totalitarianism. Industrial-era totalitarianism relied on the nation-state; in the era of outsourcing, deregulation, and global mobility, social totalitarianism looked to local authorities, private bodies (such as churches), and direct mass activism to enforce repressive control.

In the 1970s and 1980s these efforts to reinterpret fascism were not confined to the United States, but took place among neofascists in many industrialized capitalist countries. European, Canadian, and South African neofascists, too, at times advanced the doctrine known as the Third Position, strengthened internationalist ties, used coded racial appeals, advocated ethnic separatism and the breakup of nation-states, and practiced solidarity with right-wing nationalists of color.12

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THE THIRD POSITION AND WHITE SEPARATISM

The Third Position-which rejects both capitalism and communism-traces its roots to the most "radical" anticapitalist wing of Hitler's Nazi Party. In the 1970s and 1980s, neonazis in several European countries advocated the Third Position.13 Its leading proponent in the United States was White Aryan Resistance, headed by former California Klan leader Tom Metzger. Metzger, who was a Democratic candidate for Congress in 1980, expounded his philosophy at the 1987 Aryan Nations Congress:
"WAR is dedicated to the White working people, the farmers, the White poor. . . . This is a working class movement. . . . Our problem is with monopoly capitalism. The Jews first went with Capitalism and then created their Marxist game. You go for the throat of the Capitalist. You must go for the throat of the corporates. You take the game away from the left. It's our game! We're not going to fight your whore wars no more! We've got one war, that is right here, the same war the SA fought in Germany, right here; in the streets of America."14
Metzger's organization vividly illustrated fascism's tendency to appropriate elements of leftist politics in distorted form. WAR supported "white working-class" militancy such as the lengthy "P-9" labor union strike against Hormel in Minnesota, stressed environmentalism, and opposed U.S. military intervention in Central America and the Persian Gulf. The Aryan Women's League, affiliated with WAR, claimed that Jews invented male supremacy and called for "Women's Power as well as White Power."15 Metzger's television program, "Race and Reason," was broadcast on cable TV in dozens of cities and aided cooperation among White supremacist groups. Through its Aryan Youth Movement wing, WAR was particularly successful in the 1980s in recruiting racist skinheads, who include thousands of young people clustered in scores of violent pro-Nazi formations. (Not all skinheads are racist and there are antiracist and antifascist skinhead groups.) Metzger and WAR's position in the neonazi movement was weakened in October 1990 when they were fined $12.5 million in a civil suit for inciting three Portland skinheads who murdered Ethiopian immigrant Mulugeta Seraw.16

Out of the stew of the Third Position, and the European New Right theories of intellectuals such as Alain de Benoist, came a new version of White Nationalism that championed racially separate nation-states.17 In the United States this filtered down to White supremacists, who began to call themselves White Separatists.18 Dobratz and Shanks-Meile believe that "most, if not all, whites in this movement feel they are superior to blacks."19 Instead of segregation, however, White Separatism called for "geographic separation of the world's races" and in the United States this prompted calls for an Aryan Homeland in the Pacific Northwest.20 [Excerpt: Right-Wing Populism in America: Too Close for Comfort, Chapter 13, pp. 265-286.]

Connections between Canadian Extreme Right racial nationalists and Libya have been reported by author Warren Kinsella.
"The Libyan government of Mu'ammar Qadhafi had been funding [Canadian nationalist Party Leader Don] Andrew's group since at least April 1987, when a number of his members traveled to Tripoli for a "peace conference" to commemorate a U.S. bombing raid. Qadhafi liked the white supremacists because, like him, they believed in separate racial states and they despised Jews."21

"Andrews worked closely with Wolfgang Droege, a leader of the Canadian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who visited the U.S. to meet with members of the extreme right including David Duke.22 Droege was arrested in Louisiana in 1981 with nine other extreme right activists in a plot to overthrow the government of the island of Dominica and establish a White homeland.23 "In September 1989, at Andrew's suggestion, Droege traveled to Libya with a group of 17 [Canadian] Nationalist Party members." 24

The pan-Arab Ba'ath party is rooted in racial nationalism, not religious nationalism. Ba'ath is the political ideology behind the regimes in Libya and Iraq. Islamic clerical fascists, on the other hand, are religious nationalists. This might seem to be a barrier to cooperation, but in fact, many U.S. White supremacists also practice a racial nationalist religion called Christian Identity. There is clearly a fluidity between political and religious ideologies based on ethnonationalist desires. Since the idea is to smash all current nations and redivide the world into separate nation states based on race or religion, there is a shared goal.
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http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/third_position.html

cynical_otter · Oct 24, 2006

*thwaps Shane*

MaximusXXX · Nov 2, 2006

How many times do I have to tell people that Neo-Nazi Skinheads are idiot hicks who are either stupid, unemployed or failures in life.

Please, for the sake of sane individuals, stop comparing Nazis and Skinheads to Fascism.

Shane99X · Nov 4, 2006

MaximusXXX said:

How many times do I have to tell people that Neo-Nazi Skinheads are idiot hicks who are either stupid, unemployed or failures in life.

Please, for the sake of sane individuals, stop comparing Nazis and Skinheads to Fascism.
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1.)what's more fascist than a nazi?

2.)not all neo-nazis are skin heads, let alone stupid unemployed or failures in life.

3.) third positionalism and neo-fascism are growing global trends, especially among young anarchists...

MaximusXXX · Nov 4, 2006

Shane99X said:

1.)what's more fascist than a nazi?

2.)not all neo-nazis are skin heads, let alone stupid unemployed or failures in life.

3.) third positionalism and neo-fascism are growing global trends, especially among young anarchists...
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1. If you take the time to read up on the Fascist doctrine, you'll understand, Nazis are extremists just like Islam extremists or Christian extremists, or Patriotic extremists, ext.

2. Most are, have you read about Skinheads in the U.S. and U.K? Most have little to live for. The few with a brain control the idiots because those few " smart " Neo-Nazis are partially insane individuals who want power, and the best they can do is be the head of 20 idiot kids. Hard to explain in a few sentances.

3. Most individuals who call themselves Fascists and Communists aren't really Fascist or Communists, they're idiots, as I have stated, not exactly idiots as in 60 I.Q., idiots when it comes to politics.

TheMadcapSyd · Nov 4, 2006

While people normally call Nazi's fascist, there actually numerous differences between National Socialism and Fascism.

Shane99X · Nov 8, 2006

MaximusXXX said:

1. If you take the time to read up on the Fascist doctrine, you'll understand, Nazis are extremists just like Islam extremists or Christian extremists, or Patriotic extremists, ext.
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yeah, i know that, hell the article said that.
But extremists can find a large following. ( not all germans and muslims are idiots or mental, but hitler and osama both have/had huge followings)

MaximusXXX said:

2. Most are, have you read about Skinheads in the U.S. and U.K? Most have little to live for. The few with a brain control the idiots because those few " smart " Neo-Nazis are partially insane individuals who want power, and the best they can do is be the head of 20 idiot kids. Hard to explain in a few sentances.
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Yeah, the hardcore followers are nuts, but that doesnt prevent them from offering enough bite sized watered down bits to keep their number growing.
I don't know about you but 20 idiot neo-fascists are not a group i want to run into, especially if next week they have 22, then 27, then 48....

MaximusXXX said:

3. Most individuals who call themselves Fascists and Communists aren't really Fascist or Communists, they're idiots, as I have stated, not exactly idiots as in 60 I.Q., idiots when it comes to politics.
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read first two answers.

Whether or not it's made up of idiots, it's a growing and dangerous trend.

The philosophy of Militant Muslim Extremists doesnt make much sense either, but we're minus several buildings and 4,000 people because of them....

Columbo · Nov 9, 2006

1. If you take the time to read up on the Fascist doctrine, you'll understand, Nazis are extremists just like Islam extremists or Christian extremists, or Patriotic extremists, ext.
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No theyre not - theyre white supremacists who whave a hatred for Jews and homosexuals and anyone that is more intelligent than they are. Patriotic extremists need not be fascists.
2.

Most are, have you read about Skinheads in the U.S. and U.K? Most have little to live for. The few with a brain control the idiots because those few "
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Which ones can you name some of them? I suppose you believe these idiots have been taken over by a triffid or something

smart " Neo-Nazis are partially insane individuals who want power, and the best they can do is be the head of 20 idiot kids. Hard to explain in a few sentances.
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But you profess to be a nazi - are you one of the smart sane ones or should we call an ambulance?

3. Most individuals who call themselves Fascists and Communists aren't really Fascist or Communists, they're idiots, as I have stated, not exactly idiots as in 60 I.Q., idiots when it comes to politics
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But are you saying they dont know what they are? Surely they dont wake up and say - even though I believe in free speech for all, even homosexuals and Jews - I'm a nazi ? It doesnt stand to reason - are you saying that religious extremists dont believe in god?
MAWAAAH HA HA HA HA bOUWA haaar

MaximusXXX · Nov 9, 2006

Columbo said:

you profess to be a nazi
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Never, that is an outright lie, quote me please. I said I'm a Fascist.

are you saying that religious extremists dont believe in god?
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No.

Shane99X · Nov 9, 2006

fftopic:

Either way, this thread isn't about Fascism in and of itself.
There are already threads about that in this sub-forum.
Hell, this whole sub-forum is about Fascism.

This thread is about a growing trend of neo-fascism labeled Third Positionalism.

Whether or not you believe it to be a fringe movement(which of course it is) and not the true representation of fascism that our friend Max adheres to, I have run across several third positionalists in the last 2 months on several different sites, especially anarchist forums.

Third Positionalism is a concern.

And that's the topic of this thread.

MaximusXXX · Nov 9, 2006

I can't see how it can be a great concern, so there may be a few thousand new skinheads, the rise of Nationalism in Russia is a much bigger concern I think.

Columbo · Nov 10, 2006

White supremacist leader Tom Metzger promotes Third Position politics in his newspaper WAR which stands for White Aryan Resistance. In Europe, the Third Position defines its racial-nationalist theories in publications such as Third Way and The Scorpion. Third Position adherents actively seek to recruit from the left. One such group is the American Front in Portland, Oregon, which ran a phone hotline that in late November, 1991 featured an attack on critics of left/right coalitions. Some Third Position themes have surfaced in the ecology
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Ok, they have a dangerous outlook on life and you can get paranoid that these mentally ill people could gain power, but then isnt that the point - theyre mentally ill and 99.99% of people can see through their egocentric claims to self proclaimed genius and dreams of heroic power. Theres nothing to worry about Shane - when people talk about the intelligensia they are talking about something vastly different and superior to anything that is called "the right wing intelligensia"
its almost a contradiction in terms. We have to have faith that good honest policies will win against extremism. So what if the right wing are funding Bin-Laden that guy is astute enough to know that there aint gonna be a rightwing revolution - its all just wages to him and if the right wing is mug-enough to pay him good luck to him
Do you see what I mean - its not gonna happen fascism is a dated concept and they havent got anyone intelligent enough to make it work
they are a pestulence and nothing more.

Tom Metzger, a television repairman from Fallbrook, California, has been a leader in organized bigotry for more than 25 years. Metzger preaches a fierce brand of anti- Semitic, racist and anti-immigrant invective, combined with a leftist-leaning revolutionary ideology known as the "Third Position." He has been widely acknowledged as the principal mentor of the neo-Nazi skinhead movement since its appearance in America during the mid-1980s; in this connection, he attracted nationwide publicity in 1990, when
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A fuckin television repairman FFS - if thats their intelligence its the fucking laughing stock of politics - BAWOUHAHAHAHA HAAAAAAAR !!!
You can only presume he is a laughing stock and the absolute figurehead of political ineptitude on a scale that would have the whitehouse roaring with laughter at every dinner party where his name is mentioned
have faith - the rightwing cannot win - In my opinion only the French have a "right wing intelligensia" worthy of anything like that name

When a visitor clicks on "Tom Metzger" on the White Aryan Resistance Web site, a rudimentary, intriguingly grandiose biographical sketch appears. Born in April 1938, he has six children (five of them girls) and nine grandchildren; his wife, Kathy, to whom he had been married for 28 years, died in 1992. He has worked for more than 30 years as an electronics technician. He was jailed for 45 days in 1982 for attending a cross lighting, and again 10 years later, this time with his son John, for violating hate speech laws in Canada. More broadly, the WAR site reports that Metzger has been involved in brawls, riots, negotiations with the Black Panthers and Louis Farrakhan, race discussions in Tokyo twice
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http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Metzger.asp

and here - with the white aryan race website - I rest my case
http://www.resist.com/

What do you call a ship full of fags?
The navy!
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Thats on their website - so how politically astute is that?
Presumably these people are gonna do away with the navy - when they are empowered or have to admit theyve got a bunch of gays as a military - Kinda cut their own throats dont they, these right wing intellectuals? They call the navy "fags" and condemn homosexuality - oh that really is genius - they really are gonna win the military over
BAWAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA MOUHAAA WAGHAHAGAH etc etc to infinity
Nazis - fascists - call em what you want but always remember - theyre dumb as fuck

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Neo-Fascism, The Third Position, topolm

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cynical_otter Bleh!

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